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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / ETHANOL FUEL

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Posted By Discussion Topic: ETHANOL FUEL -- page: 1 2     Stroker 11-04-2010 @ 3:20 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 If "cost were no object", a stainless tank would be preferable over a plastic tank for one reason. The most aromatic components of fuel can actually pass through the polymer in a plastic tank, with the result being that the fuel becomes lower octane, along with a diminished Reid Vapor Pressure Index which while making it less susceptible to vapor lock, also makes it less easily ignited in the combustion chamber. I'm talking about long-term storage, so it may be a moot point with a daily driver. I will say that it is considered (at least by racers) very bad practice to store fuel in a plastic (polythene) fuel can. Steel is the preferred container for storage of gasoline for the above reason. Being a "plastics" person, perhaps 38 Ford V8 can further elucidate. Of course as previously mentioned by Supereal, our tanks are freely vented to the atmosphere, so they WILL pick up moisture with ethanol. While I'm a "Corn State" resident, I completely agree with Sturgis 39 on ethanol. The stuff is cr*p, and barely acceptable as a motor fuel. All of my daily drivers have plastic tanks, and I will probably opt for one for my 38, as my pockets are't quite deep enough for stainless. I would never replace my ancient tar-lined original tank with a steel one for the reasons outlined by Supereal. I'm afraid we are stuck with ethanol until someone puts politics aside and starts embracing science. ford38v8 11-04-2010 @ 4:41 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2739 Joined: Oct 2009 Dan, I had intended to let my previous post stand on this subject, but as you requested my further input, I will endow you with my limited knowledge regarding polyethylene versus stainless steel for our purposes. I would opt for stainless steel for the reason that it is more correct for the cars, and will accept a coat of paint, unlike polyethylene. I haven't seen any study relating to poly being a less secure container for aromatics, but don't doubt your statement, as the poly product used for gas tanks is of low density. in any case, I would think that the vented system would be more of a factor in this than the tank itself. I can verify Bob's modern fuel pump replacement costs. My modern just cost me a fat bundle of money for a pump/sender. Sturgis, I stand with you and your anger over ethanol, but your ALL CAPS is hurting my ears! The entire ethanol program has nothing to do with sustainable production or of saving the environment, and everything to do with propping up farm prices, and corn in particular. Long ago, it was shown that if ethanol production were a valid goal which it is not, that potatoes would be the crop of choice for a plethora of reasons, but the Corn Lobby has always been king of the hill. Being a "plastics man", as dan pointed out, I would be less than honest if I knocked chemicals altogether, but with the knowledge we have today of the widespread harm done by chemicals in farming and food production, we have demonstrated the same lack of concern as we had for the banking and financial industry before the collapse. The ethanol issue may be the best understood while being least likely to change for the better. Alan JebNY 11-04-2010 @ 6:30 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 44 Joined: Nov 2009 Was thinking, would sealing the gas filler pipe or exchange for a ventless cap for the Winter cut down on moisture build up problem in the E-gas in the tank for the Winter? Jim... 1950 F1 Stake supereal 11-05-2010 @ 8:01 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 Probably, but in a minor amount. My plastic tank has an outboard vent that fits up into the left rear wheel well, so an unvented cap wouldn't help much, anyway. The principal gripe about alcohol fuels is the affinity for moisture. What hasn't been discussed is the fact that much of that moisture is added during the manufacturing process, rather than the atmosphere. Alcohol must be trucked or hauled by rail, rather than pipelined, due to the corrosive effect. That, in itself, should be a clue regarding suitability as motor fuel. As for leakage thru plastic, I've had my plastic tank for over ten years and, so far, it hasn't shown any signs of leakage to the eye or nose, as did the pinholes in the top of my original tank. ole_Bill 11-05-2010 @ 8:18 AM reply profile send p.m. New Member Posts: 165 Joined: Dec 2009 Guess I should consider myself lucky. About 10% of all stations here in East Tennessee sell 100% gasoline, abeit at an average of $0.04 premium over regular unleaded ethanol. I use nothing else in my '36 and all small engines. I get a chuckle when I see one of the E85 vehicles. E85 has never been available here. Chalk this up to an uninformed buyer and a sharp new car salesman. TomO 11-05-2010 @ 4:49 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 7244 Joined: Oct 2009 After searching for information on Eastwood's additive the only information that I could find was from their promotional material. That makes me even more leery of using their product. I intend to re-coat my tank and live with it for a few more years. At my age the coating will probably out last my driving time anyway. I have searched for a reproduction tank that will use the original sender and have been unable to find one. Rock Valley makes stainless tanks, but they are crude looking compared to the original tank, so that is not an option. It looks like sometime in the future, our cars will have to be modified to comply with the newer gasoline. The current administration in Washington is trying to get an energy bill passed that increase the oxygenators in motor fuel and create a whole new set of problems. I still don't understand why we subsidize corn growing for ethanol and subsidize plowing under of sugar beets that would produce the ethanol at a lower cost. Tom JebNY 11-06-2010 @ 3:14 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 44 Joined: Nov 2009 ole_Bill, keep your eye on those good stations. We had one chain that still had real gas, then one magic day a few months ago they switched also. I was buying all my gas from them and telling them that was why and that I was telling all my friends. Every time I told them they would say they were holding out as long as they could. Not sure if there supplier refused to deliver anymore or the government forced them to change. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake supereal 11-07-2010 @ 11:52 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 Drake offers both steel and stainless steel tanks that closely resemble the original. Most of the replacement tanks, including Drake's, require a non-stock sender, We have put in a number of those, and if they are correctly set up, work about as well as the original. Here, in Iowa, corn prices have spiked above $5.50/bushel. I suspect that will take the wind out of the push for more gasohol. Without a tax subsidy, it is impractical, anyway. In spite of the price difference, most have discovered the 10-15% drop in MPG doesn't justify a dime's difference in per gallon price. This message was edited by supereal on 11-8-10 @ 9:58 AM

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