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Posted By Discussion Topic: ETHANOL FUEL -- page: 1 2     zuktom 11-01-2010 @ 3:05 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 28 Joined: Oct 2009 We are now going to 15% ethanol and no one in the area is selling fuel without it. Will this hurt my 36 or is thier an addative thanks tom Stroker 11-01-2010 @ 3:52 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 Tom: There is no "additive". About the best you can do is to make sure your fuel delivery system can handle the extreme solvent properties of ethanol. You may have to rebuild your carb with alcohol-resistant parts, and you will probably also have to replace the fuel pump diaphragm with an alcohol-resistant part. An additional problem is that if you are still running the original fuel tank, it will have a coating on the inside of varnish from 74 years of regular gasoline. The ethanol will dissolve this coating, leading to a never-ending filter replacement problem. Might consider replacing the tank as well. I'm sure others will weigh-in on this, but it is something we are all facing. supereal 11-01-2010 @ 4:23 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 In Iowa, the sale of 15% gasohol is restricted to vehicles newer than 2006. The real test will be the impact on small engines, particularly those who use gas mixed with oil. There is testing going on, but I'm not sure I trust the results. When the "new" diesel came out, we were told it wouldn't cause problems. In the "real" world, it promptly ate most of the rubber parts of the fuel system. The old car problems, as Stroker points out, largely stem from the solvent properties of ethanol. It turns any non-nitrile rubber into black goo, but doesn't seem to affect valve seats, etc, as was expected. ford38v8 11-01-2010 @ 5:33 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2739 Joined: Oct 2009 Tom, Both Stroker and Supereal are correct, but there are two other consequences from using Ethanol: One is rust. As alcohol is compatible with and attracts water, you will experience rust in your gas tank and in your fuel line. This is a serious threat, and must be dealt with. An additive that does help to a small degree is Marvel Mystery Oil in your gas tank, 4 oz per fill up. It is not a cure all, but it helps. Another consequence is common also to the reformulated gasoline as well as Ethanol: Sticky valves. This can be diagnosed in the usual ways, the symptoms being an erratic miss. After ruling out ignition, a compression test will show the sticky valve. The cure for this, coincidentally, is Marvel Mystery Oil. This can be added by way of an under hood bottle and delivery system, or, to kill two birds with one stone, add it to your gas tank. There is no advantage whatsoever in adding MMO or any other additive to your oil. In fact, absent tests to prove compatitibility, an additive to the oil may in fact prove harmful over time. At least, that's what all the oil manufacturers tell us. I should get a commission from MMO, don't you think? Alan TomO 11-02-2010 @ 7:19 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 7244 Joined: Oct 2009 Alan, MMO can and should be added to the motor oil when you have sticky valves. The penetrating properties of MMO help lubricate the valve stems and free up the sticky valve. I would not leave it in the engine for extended periods as it may conflict with other additive in the oil. Usually MMO will free sticky valves within 100 miles. Tom sturgis 39 11-03-2010 @ 9:47 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 74 Joined: Nov 2009 ETHANOL IS THE BIGGEST RIP OFFS OF THE UNITED STATES. IT TAKES MORE ENERGY TO PRODUCE THAN IT MAKES.THIS IS JUST PLAIN STUPID. THE COST PER GALLON IS ESTIMATED TO BE $22.00 WHICH PROBABLY DOES NOT INCLUDE ALL OF THE HIDDEN COSTS. THE GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES, THE LOWER GAS MILEAGE, THE AMOUNT OF WATER USED, THE HIGHER COST OF FOOD,THE INCREASE IN PROPANE COSTS ARE ADDITIONAL NEGATIVES. THIS IS GOING TO BITE US JUST LIKE FANNY MAE AND FREDDIE MACK. WE WOULD USE LESS ENERGY BY BURNING THE PROPANE USED TO MAKE FERTILIZER FOR THE CORN DIRECTLY IN OUR CARS. ONLY OUR GOVERNMENT WOULD SUPPORT SUCH A COSTLY PROGRAM Early46 11-03-2010 @ 10:09 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 18 Joined: Feb 2010 Eastwood is now selling a Fuel Guard and Storage Stabilizer which supposedly will counteract the effects of Ethanol! It is apparently a new product so there are no reviews on their site. Smoke and mirrors or a really useful product?? If you find out, let us all know! Charles supereal 11-04-2010 @ 8:45 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 The best selling gasoline storage additive is Sta-Bil. They claim it prevents "stale" gasoline. When storing a car for a long time, the tank should either be filled to capacity to lesson air that promotes deterioration, or drained completely. As my friend, Alan, points out, ethanol is added as an "oxygenate" to reduce exhaust emissions. An unfortunate byproduct is rust in parts of the fuel system, mainly the fuel line from the tank to the firewall. I can't recall so many clogged fuel lines over the years, so I can only assume that the alcohol attacks any voids in the copper coating of the line. The stock line is just large enough to supply adequate fuel. 1/4". Any blockage will product the dreaded "vapor lock" effect to occur. At our shop, we are seeing the 10% ethanol causing problems in modern vehicles such as in-tank fuel pump failures, an expensive repair, to say the least. TomO 11-04-2010 @ 9:36 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 7244 Joined: Oct 2009 Supereal, I have heard that a discussion is ongoing about having a full tank of gasohol vs an empty tank in storage. Some people say that the extra water and corrosion properties of the newer gasoline will cause more corrosion in a full tank than would happen in an empty tank during winter storage. Eastwood claims that their preservative will inhibit the corrosion caused by gasohol. I have been keeping mine full for years, because draining and storing gasoline until it can be used is a real pain. But they keep changing the gas additives and making the decision more difficult. This year, my tank will be out of the car for winter and empty, as I have to fix a problem with the coating applied in 1979. Has anybody found a site with facts about this problem? Tom supereal 11-04-2010 @ 1:01 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 Tom: I am always leery about additive claims. As you know, ethanol is "hydroscopic" and attracts water, which can bead and settle to the bottom of the tank, causing rust. I have a plastic tank, and don't worry about rust but, hopefully, the reduction of air in the tank will slow the evaporation and deterioration of the fuel itself. If moisture due to temperature change is a problem. as in unheated storage, I'd add a can of methanol (Heet) which, unlike ethanol, will combine with the water to form a combustible mixture. I suspect an empty tank may well create more moisture than a full one if condensation happens in the air inside. I'd opt for either a plastic or stainless tank if the car isn't used for long periods of time, anyway.

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