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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / timing marking on gears 1939 ford standard

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Posted By Discussion Topic: timing marking on gears 1939 ford standard -- page: 1 2

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mikeyb
09-01-2019 @ 6:51 PM
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sep 2019
          
engine seems to be running out of time Distributor set ok. pulled timing cover did not see any damage however only the cam gear was marked and crank gear was not. How do I know if the crank and cam gears are aligned correctly? I thought it might have jumped gear but there's no way to tell because there's no marking on the crank gear.

GK1918
09-02-2019 @ 6:50 AM
New Member
Posts: 108
Joined: Aug 2016
          
Is this a fresh rebuild and both timing gears replaced, if so do you have the
old gears to match up. No surprise that replacement gears not marked or
marked wrong....We did one last month and the cam gear has 3 dots? Guessing game 'pick a dot' hope for the best nope return it for another.
Having a shop manual is a must, cause you just can't keep all this stuff in
your head. Engines vary thats why we have books and lots of them. Some
engines use the keyway for the stamped dot on the crank. In this case I
would get No. 1 piston up top dead ready to fire now look and see the cam
gear dot should or will be at 6 0'clock whats the crank gear look like? where
abouts is the keyway if what I'm thinking the key should be 12 0'clock to
mesh with the cam dot. From the looks of this you may be off only a tooth.
And then a lot of gears are laser or acid etched hard to see this little dot.
But my mind still says it should have a stamped dot. All I can think of for
now you can see the dot is 6 teeth from the key way sam

This message was edited by GK1918 on 9-2-19 @ 7:00 AM

mikeyb
09-05-2019 @ 5:59 PM
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sep 2019
          
Thanks very much for responding. For the last few years I've enjoyed bringing back to life a '39 standard that had been in a garage for the last 40 years. After a tune-up and unsticking a valve or 2 it''s worked fine until now. It started making a popping sound in the exhaust so I did a compression check. All the cylinders read over 100lb. except for one, which read about 60 or 65 lb. I pulled the heads off, and took care of that problem. After I reassembled everything, the problem persisted. I advanced the distributor timing and the popping went away, however it's not the correct setting. On higher acceleration it just flattens out. The vacuum advance is working fine and everything appears legit. Thinking it might be the distributor, I considered buying an upgraded one. I spoke to someone at Bob Drake who advised me to check the timing gears, so I exposed the gears and there's no damage to the cam gear. The crank gear has a couple of chips on the outer edge, otherwise it's ok. The cam gear is the press on fiber kind, which has a marking line, but the crank gear has no marks at all. When the cam gear is at 6 o'clock, the keyway on the crank gear is at around 10 o'clock, which makes me doubt that would be the timing mark. Thanks again. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

40 Coupe
09-06-2019 @ 5:13 AM
Senior
Posts: 1140
Joined: Oct 2009
          
The crank gear timing mark is on the face of the third tooth to the right of the keyway. The gear could have been installed backward which would put the mark on the engine block side. The marks are not always very clear and do vary in appearance, but now you know where to look. Remember the crank rotates twice for every single rotation of the cam.

mikeyb
09-07-2019 @ 8:09 PM
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sep 2019
          
Thanks so much for responding.I'll check it out tomorrow. You sound like you've dealt with this kind of thing before. I really believe the problem is in the timing. Regardless there appears to be no damage to the gears. I enjoy the flathead v8 and I want to keep the car as original as possible. Thanks for all your help. I'll let you know how it works out.

Another question: how do I remove the pressed on fiber gear from the cam shaft? I assume that the crank gear will come out by removing the key and dropping the oil pan. Is that correct? Thanks again.

40 Coupe
09-08-2019 @ 4:59 AM
Senior
Posts: 1140
Joined: Oct 2009
          
cam gear is usually removed after removing the cam and then pressing the cam out of the gear. Crank gear is pulled off the crank using a puller.
If your car ran well at one time and the gear teeth on the timing gears are good I would look in another direction to find the problem.
Look again at the valves since they can be slow to close with the engine running and appear to close properly when the engine is not running. May want to use MMO in the oil and see if the problem gets slowly better.

TomO
09-08-2019 @ 8:49 AM
Senior
Posts: 5845
Joined: Oct 2009
          
How was your distributor timed? It should have been done on a distributor machine by an experienced operator and checked for point float, timing variations and dwell variations.

You can connect a dwell meter to the terminal where the condenser mounts on the coil and check total dwell. It should be 34-36 degrees. If it is out of range or not stable at all speeds, the distributor should be checked out on a distributor machine.

Tom

therunwaybehind
09-09-2019 @ 6:41 AM
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: May 2019
          
My experience with a "popping sound" was with a worn out lobe on the camshaft. The base of the lifter was also dished.

mikeyb
09-09-2019 @ 5:02 PM
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sep 2019
          
Thank you all for your help. I discovered that the timing gears lined up correctly and there's no damage. I've driven the car for the last few years with no problems and then within a month things changed. Before I go the cam route, Im going to look at the distributor. It seems when I advance the timing on the distributor, the popping stops. However, having it adjusted that far isn't the right setting and as you accelerate and gain rpm's, it flattens out. I'm considering upgrading the ignition system but I always wanted to keep it original.

Is it possible that the spark plug wires are jumping the spark inside the harness? I bought the spark plug wires from Mac. It's a reproduction of the cloth kind. Thanks again to everyone.

37RAGTOPMAN
09-14-2019 @ 8:49 AM
Senior
Posts: 1269
Joined: Oct 2009
          
HI
if the cam and crank gears were bad, you should be able to hear them ,making a rattling noise,
with out taking the engine apart,
also if you replace the camshaft, be SURE to REPLACE with bolt on CAM GEAR, CAMSHAFT....!!!
make it MUSH easier to change the cam gear later on,,,,

just a thought,
you might have a intake leak , causing a lean mixture,? how is the engine vacuum ? steady ?
maybe the distributor shaft has wobble in it,bushing worn, causing the popping noise, in exhaust ? ignition points bouncing ? rotor cracked " burnt ? corroded ?
Skip H would rebuild it, for you , look for him the V8 TIMES, club magazine ,
a lot of interesting information, it is a real asset to become a Member,
did you try using MARVEL MYSTERY OIL in the gas, sticking exhaust valves,
on the ign wires use a old windex sprayer and use water to spray the wires, and see if it starts to miss,
in the dark you will see the spark jump if the wires are at fault ,
stay with the old ignition system , very easy to find out what it wrong when it fails
get to back to use with the result 37Ragtopman

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