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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Mercury Discussion / 95 H.P. V8 FH Starter Drive Failure

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Discussion Topic: 95 H.P. V8 FH Starter Drive Failure

SPAIRINC

11-22-2012 @ 7:21 PM

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1937 Fordor Humpback with a 95HP motor is a recent purchase for me.

Starter has gone out.... Pulled the unit and found the spring deformed because one of the retainer screw/bolt has come out. The head of the remaining retainer bolt is stamped "Bendix". I have not located the missing retainer screw/bolt yet. Will try to fish it out of lower ring gear housing with magnet.

This car has a 12 volt Alternator conversion. Is there also a conversion that should be made to the starter?
I am trying to decide which is best repair route: 1) buy new spring, boltS, etc and repair existing Bendix. 2) buy the B-11350 rebuilt unit

Where can I find the repair procedures for this Bendix?

Fortunately, the Ring Gear and Bendix teeth appear to be OK.

THIS IS MY 1st Post to this site. Thank you for any assistance anyone may provide.

Dan
606-269-8941

Best Regards....
Dan

TomO

11-23-2012 @ 7:23 AM

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Dan,

Welcome to the Forum.

The Bendix drive likely fell apart due to the increased strain due to running the starter at twice its rated speed. The bolts are held in with locking clips, so when you are fishing for the bolt look for the clip also.

If the spring is damaged, I would replace the complete unit with a new one. I would also have the starter converted to 12 volts or find a 12 volt starter from a 56 or 57 Ford.

Tom

supereal

11-23-2012 @ 11:59 AM

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I agree with Tom.Y ou should replace the special starter drive bolts and locks. There are two sizes of the bolts, .863 and .668, so be sure to order the correct size. The special lock washer is B-11379. You will need two of each. As Tom pointed out, a six volt starter will, on 12 volts, slam the drive into the flywheel. Almost always, this eventually destroys the drive and/or the Bendix spring.

Stroker

11-23-2012 @ 3:45 PM

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Now...I can't help asking; why 12 volts? There are not a lot of valid reasons to switch, and you are experiencing one of the downsides. The reason the industry switched to 12 volts was mainly one of cost. Our early Fords were wired with large copper conductors that handle lots of amps.
In the mid-fifties, copper was in short supply, and in an effort to contain costs, switching to
12 volts allowed for smaller wires, and less material cost. Civil aircraft run 24 volts, not because of cost, but because as stated above, less material means less weight. Weight is not an issue with our antique Fords, so there are not a lot of well thought-out reasons to switch from
6 volts to 12 or 18 except that we believe that (numerically) "more is better". Given that 6 volt bulbs are readily available, and all original accessories are 6 volt based, unless you have re-wired your vehicle with smaller gauge wiring, you are dismissing the capacity that was built into the robust original wiring system.

SPAIRINC

12-05-2012 @ 6:42 AM

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My recent find and purchase is a very nice 37' driver.....not rodded, but upgraded. The 12volt upgrade came with the car.

So, now the dilemma continues.... I replace the ole style spring Bendix with the newer style which is supposed to handle the 12volt issue.

One turn of the key, and I knew it wasn't right. Dropped the starter again and onus the new Bendix apart (snap ring loose, but still there).

Nothing appears really damaged.... Fly wheel gear and teeth OK. Some marks on the base of the Bendix gears.

I'm having really trouble getting the Starter all the way out....had to wiggle it around a lot to get it in....but, it bolted up just fine.

Any thoughts, techniques or advice greatly appreciated. feel free to call, Dan, 606-269-8941.

Best Regards....
Dan

SPAIRINC

12-05-2012 @ 6:53 AM

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Hello Tom.... You may see may see my reply to Stroker re: 12volt system and starter situation.

I have time today to try and correct this starter dilemma..... I sure could use some advice or a reference to the "Starter Installation" ASAP.

I bought an upgrade type Bendix/starter drive.... Had a shop check it out yesterday....installed last pm on my driveway (I'm stuck there for the time being).

One turn of the key/starter and I knew something not right. Dropped the starter( actually...not all the way out yet) ... And, found a snap ring loose from the starter drive and some marks on the base of the starter/pinion gear teeth. Nothing broken off and the flywheel teeth still OK.

Is there a technique to getting the starter completely out of the housing?

Any ideas why I have this failure of the new starter drive?

Feel free to call is able, Dan, 606-269-8941

Best Regards....
Dan

TomO

12-05-2012 @ 7:20 AM

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Hi Dan,

IMHO a 12 volt conversion is not an upgrade.

I am unaware of any starter drive that will take the abuse of spinning the starter twice as fast as it was designed to go.

You say that the engine is a 95HP engine, but did not give the year of the engine. If it is a 39 or later engine, you should add the front starter support, P/N 51A-11140. This will relieve some of the strain on the starter and drive. The support will not fit on the oil pan of the 21 stud engine.

There is no secret way to remove the starter from the oil pan, you just have to wiggle the starter drive around the fly wheel. As you have a "modern" starter drive that I am not familiar with, I cannot give you any detailed instructions.

Tom

supereal

12-05-2012 @ 10:17 AM

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The "new style" drive is enclosed in a fairly large casing surrounding the mechanism. We haven't had one apart, but know they come out like the old style by maneuvering around the flywheel ring gear. I doubt a different drive will compensate for the abuse a six volt starter gets when fed 12 volts. I'd opt for a new 12 volt starter and drive. C&G lists them (3103-STN12) for $179.95 exchange. It is likely you will have to replace the starter sooner or later, anyway.

carcrazy

12-05-2012 @ 10:21 AM

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One thing you can do is take your 6V starter motor to a starter/alternator repair shop to have it made into a 12V starter. The starter speed will then be compatible with the starter drive system to hopefully eliminate your problems.

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