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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Mercury Discussion / Ammeter discharge w/halogen lights

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Discussion Topic: Ammeter discharge w/halogen lights -- page: 1 2 3

TomO

09-23-2015 @ 8:10 AM

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Tracker,

The headlight relay will increase the voltage to your headlights and make them brighter.

You can also eliminate excess resistance in the headlight circuit and accomplish the same thing. The dimmer switch usually accounts for the most resistance in the circuit. If you operate it about 20 times with the lights on, you will be surprised by how much brighter they are.

I explained how to find excess resistance in the post to Peder in this forum. Before installing the headlight relay, I would perform these voltage drop tests.

The most common halogen headlight is from Drake and other hot rod suppliers. Those bulbs do draw much more current than the stock bulbs. The H6006 bulb is supposed to have the same current draw as the stock 6V sealed beam bulb. The H6024 draws more current than the stock bulb.

Tom

Tracker

09-23-2015 @ 8:16 PM

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Tom

The Wagner H Lights are the H6006. If that's the same draw as the originals, does that suggest I have another problem yet to be identified ?

I did order the 6 volt hd relay from 5th Ave Garage anticipating that I would be going back to incandescent lights which means I will not be doing any night driving.

Will the relay allow me to use the Wagner halogens or does that mean back to incandescent regardless. I admit I am confused on this issue.

Tracker

TomO

09-24-2015 @ 5:36 AM

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Tracker,

You probably have excess resistance in the headlight circuit. Read this article and let me know if it answers your questions.

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uses/comunidad/fluke-news-plus/articlecategories/electrical/diagnosevoltdrop

Tom

Tracker

09-25-2015 @ 2:17 PM

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Thanks Tom...I will keep this for future reference & have read it 5 times. I started with grounds & each time the incandescent lights did get a bit brighter. Then I used the flasher about 20 times...what that does I cannot imagine but the negative ammeter read went away entirely. Then I put the Wagner halogens back in and ended up with a heavy draw down on the ammeter while running above idle. I let the car run about 15 minutes but the light wires never heated up that I could tell. The lights are 4-5 times brighter but the negative draw down has not substantially improved. I'm not happy about that so my plan is to forget the Halogens and put the 5th Avenue relay in I'm expecting and go back to incandescent lighting & forget night driving unless the inline relay kicks everything up a notch so I can see to drive.

Thanks again for your expertise Tom and your always willingness to share your knowledge...its an invaluable aid to wannabe mechanics like myself.

tracker

len47merc

09-25-2015 @ 6:22 PM

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Tracker - I have kept up with this discussion with keen interest as when starting my first project I had the same dilemma as you. With help and direction from each and every one of the respondents above to your (this) post I was able to achieve very bright, 6V neg ground original incandescent headlights with a completely stock system. The effort included not only focused clean-up of ALL lighting, dimmer switch/switches general and charging ground points but also work on the overall wiring, generator and voltage regulator. In the end I can not be happier with the brightness of the stock lights at night and routinely have people flashing me when I fail to turn off the brights (prior no one bothered as the lights were too dim to be of concern).

As a now preservationist versus 'restorationist' I am also glad to have stayed true to the original design using all the original hardware and persevered through the frustration to achieve a positive result.

Others have heard this from me before - my '47's stock 6V incandescent lights are brighter than a neighbor's '54's which was converted to 12V without troubleshooting and addressing all the root causes of his 'dim' 6V headlights. Making any conversion without researching and addressing all of the root causes and problems in your current system will likely lead to other problems down the road with your new set-up, whatever it may be.

What I am trying to say is don't give up on driving at night - those 6V lights can and will give you all the light you need to drive your car at the speeds it was designed for - without discharging. Stick with these guys (they really know their stuff!), stay patient, ask more questions and you will be surprised by how well those 6V lights will perform. Hate to see you throw in the towel on any aspect here when with a bit more effort you can achieve your goal.

EDIT - IMHO assuming you do stay with original incandescent lighting, time and effort spent optimizing the power feed/loop to your headlights should negate the need for (and offset the time and effort for) a relay install. As well, it will help you with other areas that may not be as obvious problems to you now and/or may be surprise problems in the future.

For what it's worth -

Steve

This message was edited by len47merc on 9-26-15 @ 4:41 AM

TomO

09-26-2015 @ 7:39 AM

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Tracker,

Using the dimmer switch ("flasher") 20 times, cleaned some of the corrosion off of the switch contacts.

The ground circuit is just as important as the voltage circuit. Most of the concern with the grounding circuit came with the use of electronic circuits that are low amperage. The use of plastics for light housings added to the concern. Some car manufacturers added a ground terminal in the trunk that was just riveted to the body. These used to rust out frequently causing grounding problems.

In my experience with cars built from 1932-1953, the supply side of the high current circuits like the headlights and starter circuit are more likely to have excessive resistance in them that the ground circuit. The best way to isolate the excessive resistance is with a voltage drop test.

Tom

Tracker

09-26-2015 @ 7:49 AM

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Len...thanks for your insightful comments. I could not be happier with the response I got on this from the most knowledgeable mechanics on the planet.

I am a long way from throwing in the towel...a fellow Merc guy told me about a halogen light harness offered by Ron Francis that may be the solution to using halogen lights without fear of frying either the dimmer or light switch..I'm looking at that as an alternative. The halogens are just so much brighter I'm still working on it.

Thanks again.
Tracker

Tracker

09-26-2015 @ 8:05 AM

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Tom...thanks again...I could not imagine what pumping the flasher was doing but it definitely improved the incandescent lighting by a factor of 1x.

This car is a convertible with a single small cowl mounted groundstrap mounted to a bolt head on the fuel pump stand. Never liked that too much so I added a new woven ground strap for the frame direct to the engine. That seemed to improve everything from the radio to the lights ..then I steel wool polished every light contact and on the dimmer switch. The ammeter draw went away entirely with the Halogen lights.

My supplier contacts tell me sooner or later the Halogens will take out either my light switch or my dimmer or both. Ron Francis sells an adapter harness specifically to avoid this problem. Pricey but perhaps a safe alternative to use the Halogen lights. The xtra brightness is well worth the effort.

Thanks again.

len47merc

09-26-2015 @ 11:47 AM

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Tracker - my solutions ended up being more fundamental than yours. All of the following 'connections' (in addition to wiring terminations/plugs) were addressed for the headlights and taillights and each had an impact on brightness. Those producing the greatest impact on the headlight and taillight brightness were items 1/2 and 3/4, respectively, plus 10 below, although all had degrees of impact on the lights and other areas:

1) Headlight-to-bucket
2) Bucket-to-fender
3) Taillight-to-housing
4) Housing-to-quarter panel
5) Fender-to-frame
6) Fender-to-body
7) Quarter panel-to-frame
8) Quarter panel-to-body
9) Body-to-frame (multiple locations)
10) Battery-to-body/firewall
11) Body/firewall-to-engine
12) Battery-to-solenoid
13) Solenoid-to-starter
14) Starter-to-block/trans housing

Btw, I installed original NOS woven straps from the pos battery terminal to the firewall and from the firewall to the 2nd passenger side manifold bolt (counting from the rear, placing it where the original was found). Also, my dimmer and light switches were NOT players on headlight brightness.

Guess I've become too much of a purist here but hate to see the halogens on anything other than customs/modifieds and perhaps push too hard to address all possible probs in support of the original incandescents, particularly given how the input from these guys above got them so bright.

Tom's electrical/grounding diagnosis' & processes are always on the mark, and Alan's and carcrazy's points are always insightful as well. Sounds like you are driving quite a bit at night and cannot get the incandescents where you want them, though I am more than satisfied with mine. Be sure to give carcrazy's very good suggestion of a relay serious consideration if you ultimately decide to stay with the halogens and Good Luck with your project!

Steve

This message was edited by len47merc on 9-26-15 @ 12:29 PM

ford38v8

09-26-2015 @ 5:16 PM

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Tracker, I can't help making one more comment... Salesmanship always seems to trump solid advice. It is human nature to readily accept the pitchman's fix-all product, while being skeptical of advice given without a profit motive.

Alan

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