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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / Wide Five discussion

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Posted By Discussion Topic: Wide Five discussion -- page: 1 2 3     Stroker 10-16-2012 @ 7:11 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 37 Coupe: I bought a set of 15" Kelsey's at a salvage yard in the late 50's for my 38. They had the stock hubcap clips, were riveted construction, and as you say, wider. I don't know when they were first produced, probably post war though, as that's when the 15 inch "lower profile" tires became available. They allowed me to run "big & littles", and lowered the car slightly. With the stock hubcaps, they looked quite original to me, but of course they wouldn't to an EV8CA judge! I think the "why" was simply to satisfy a demand to run then current 15-inch popular tire sizes on the part of Ford, Mercury and Zephyr owners. Even though they were embraced by circle-track racers for reasons set forth by Supereal, The fact that they came with hub cap clips indicates to me they were an aftermarket "Upgrade". Attached is a photo of the 1934 rear-engined "dream car". Stroker 10-16-2012 @ 7:18 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 Here's a photo of the 1935 Stout (of Stout Metal Airplane fame). In "the day", we called wide-fives "skeleton wheels". This message was edited by Stroker on 10-16-12 @ 7:21 AM wmsteed 10-18-2012 @ 7:00 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 607 Joined: Oct 2009 The real reason why Ford went to the wide five bolt pattern in 1936 will most likely never be known. What is known, is documented in the 1935-36 Ford Book, pages 90-91. Ford discontinued the wire wheels in '35 in favor of the 16 x 4 steel wheel because the all steel, riveted wheel, "improved the ride quality" of the '36 Ford.. The wide five wheel also eliminated the need for a hub on the drum to support the wheel and reduced the unsprung weight by 20 lbs. The cost savings to Ford must have been huge.. As usual, Ford was a little slow in discontinuing the use of wire wheels. Chrysler switched to steel disk wheels in '34, GM started the change over in '34 on some of their vehicles.. Very few '35 and later GM cars had wire wheels. Bill 36 5 win delx cpe trjford8 10-18-2012 @ 9:10 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 4203 Joined: Oct 2009 I suspect that old Henry went to the wide five as a cost saving measure. Cutting his cost kept the price of the cars down. He was good at saving a nickel anywhere he could. Much like putting only one door lock, rather than two, on each car. I believe the wide five 15" wheels were an aftermarket wheel sold by Kelsey Hayes. They were marketed just the same as the General Jumbos. Car guys always have a need to make changes to the stock appearance of their cars. Wheels are the easiest thing to change to individualize a person's car. Not much different today with the fancy alloy rims we see adorning SUV's and other cars on today's roadways. I'll have to look through my Fordlife magazines as I think Lorin Sorenson did an issue on specialty wheels/tires on old Fords. fenbach 10-18-2012 @ 8:17 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 227 Joined: Dec 2009 anybody know the right torque for the 5-wide wheel bolts? ford38v8 10-18-2012 @ 10:57 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2739 Joined: Oct 2009 Fenbach, Lugnuts should be torqued to 75-85 ft lbs. Tighten in a star pattern in several steps.This torque value would apply regardless of the lug diameter, but is most important on the '36 - '39 10.25" bolt pattern, as the drum is subject to distortion from incorrectly tightening the lug nuts. As a side note, wheel lugs being subject to road conditions, they and their nuts suffer corosive elements making installation and removal less than rocket science. Contrary to perfect world torqueing techniques, a single drop of motor oil per lug nut (conveniently supplied by the engine dipstick), does provide for more accurate and easier operation. If you've ever tried in vain to remove a lug nut, in the process rounding it over, you'll remember the dipstick solution forever. Due to the lubricity of the oil, the specified 75 - 85 ft lbs should be raised slightly. I take it to 90 lbs myself. Alan This message was edited by ford38v8 on 10-18-12 @ 11:08 PM supereal 10-19-2012 @ 6:29 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 Using a torque wrench to tighten lug nuts is a standard practice, and is important to prevent distortion of the braking equipment, whether drums or rotors. Too often, careless tire shops just use an air wrench on them and vastly overtighten. We found one that took over two hundred foot pounds to remove. Try that along the road sometime! Check your owner's manual for the spec. For cars, it is usually in the 65-75 range. More for trucks. My pickup, with 20" wheels, calls for 150. Always use the cross pattern, as well. Dale Fairfax 10-19-2012 @ 6:59 AM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 20 Joined: Oct 2009 Can't comment with any confidence on why Ford went away from it, but as to why the went TO it; seems that any perceived weight savings in the wheel center would have been more than offset by the need to beef up the drum. Wheel mounting loads in the 5 1/2" B.C. system are born by the hubs-not the drums. As to the popularity of the "wide five" with the racers, the use on the 3/4 ton rearends was certainly a significant factor-along with the popularity of ANY Ford part but one overiding item was the better resistance to the side loading that circle track racers subjected their wheels to. In my collection of photos of the old "Roaring Roadsters", there's several shots showing flying wheel/tire assemblies-a result of the smaller B.C, centers ripping out of the wheel. Stroker 10-19-2012 @ 3:30 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 Dale: I think you're right regarding weight savings, as 36-39 drums have thick cast sections and stiffening ribs on the inside. As for cost savings, if they were that much cheaper to build than the later disc wheel 5 on 5-1/2 centers Ford would have stayed with them in 1940. The large 2-piece large diameter 36-39 hubcap cost would also have factored-in. I agree with you regarding their great strength when 15" versions are subjected to side loads. Today of course the hubs are generally alloy racing-only lightweight pieces, and the only steel in the assembly is the "rule-mandated" rim. At any rate, I like "wide-fives", but I wish someone would make repop 36-39 Ford drums, as most of ours are getting pretty "long of tooth". VW, Porsche, & Pontiac and dirt-baller's obviously felt there were merits to the wide bolt circle, and I believe there are. Weight/cost savings are probably not the primary pluses. Zoin 09-09-2014 @ 6:55 AM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 1 Joined: Sep 2014 I am trying to find out what these rims are from but for the life of me I cant find any info about them. Does anyone know what they are from?

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