| fordmerc | -- 07-01-2011 @ 8:17 AM |
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Pump won't pump on car, off car manual depression of the arm gives -6 vacuum. Push rod is correct length, the rod moves at least 1/4 in up and down. The problem still seems to be that on the car the push rod is not pushing the arm in the pump or at least there is insufficient travel up and down What did I do wrong? ?suggestions? (the pump worked before I removed it to remove the manifold)
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| supereal | -- 07-01-2011 @ 10:42 AM |
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Are you sure you got the pump rod in the cup of the pump? We usually remove the pump and stand to replace the pump. It makes the job easier, and allows the pump to be set down on the rod. It is also possible that the spring on the pump arm may have been lost when it was removed.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 07-01-2011 @ 10:42 AM |
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Was wondering were you bought your kit. you might have to loosen the screws were it comes together and pre load the diaphram,[ centering it,]and while doing that tighten the screws. this might be the answer. this might reduce the stroke you need, the reason it works off the car, manualy your are increasing the stroke, let hear how you made out. 37RAGTOPMAN
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| fordmerc | -- 07-01-2011 @ 11:45 AM |
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Pump and stand installed as a unit. The spring is seated and intact. Rebuild kit purchased from C&G 4 years ago (it has been a long and painful restoration!) I removed the unit again, loosened the screws fully, loaded the diaphragm and then tightened the screws. Unfortunately, no improvement. For the record, another pump loaned to me does work, although it is not identical to mine which seemed to work at one time.
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-01-2011 @ 11:45 AM |
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Fordmerc, check your rocker arm for wear at the pivot. Rebuild kits used to come with new rocker arms, but these days you have to order them separately. Alan
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| fordmerc | -- 07-01-2011 @ 11:47 AM |
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Rocker arm seems OK and not worn - it looks almost new but I don't recall whether I Replaced it or not
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-01-2011 @ 12:00 PM |
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Vacuum isn't the whole story: You may have a defective outgoing check valve. You may also have an air leak at the inlet that isn't apparent when you check vacuum. Alan
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| fordmerc | -- 07-01-2011 @ 6:15 PM |
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Valves considered, but they are "new". I can also draw air in the appropriate directions. since the pump was on the car when I got it I assumed it was original. It does not meet the description provided in the "Ford" book, so I am pursuing a "new" pump appropriate to the car. I have concluded that the push rod and the lever arm are not appropriately matched and insufficient travel is the problem. I will also replace the push rod since I had bent the original and the new one is a "repro". Thanks for suggestions
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 07-01-2011 @ 6:26 PM |
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Fordmerc I think if you would have described the engine,year of car,or posted a picture.. it might help ,finding out what you are doing that is wrong, someone could post a picture, what you should be using for a fuel pump and the correct stand, bending a fuel pump push rod, makes me believe there is something really wrong,I never saw one bent,how did that happen ? Must have been jammed up to do that, a long push rod and short stand,? maybe this bent the fuel pump lever ??? and now creating a problem. cast iron intake 8 7/8 push rod Aluminum intake 7 7/8 push rod I think this is correct, it if isn't someone for sure will correct me, my 3 cents 37RAGTOPMAN This message was edited by 37RAGTOPMAN on 7-1-11 @ 6:29 PM
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| TomO | -- 07-02-2011 @ 8:24 AM |
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Fordmerc, you said that you " loosened the screws fully, loaded the diaphragm and then tightened the screws." The diaphragm must be relaxed when tightening the screws. The correct method is loosen all of the screws so that the lock washers are just touching the screws and casting, operate the arm a few times and then release it. Tighten the screws on a cross pattern. Operate the arm on the pump with it off of the car and observe the movement. There should be no movement at the pivot point and the arm should pull the diaphragm with less than 1/16' of movement. I suspect that your diaphragm is stretched from improper installation. Tom
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| Dolman | -- 07-02-2011 @ 1:44 PM |
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The fuel pump on my 34 pickup quit and I bought a new one (Airtex). Installed it and it didn't pump either. Checked the vacuum with a gauge and it registered about 1 inch Hg and fluctuated between 0 and 1 in sync with the engine cranking which told me the push rod was in the rocker arm cup. My install method removed the stand, installed the pump and put the stand back on. Question for you flat head gurus, should I be able to feel some suction with a finger over the inlet port while manually operating the rocker arm? Anyway, I won't be in the July 4th parade.
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| supereal | -- 07-02-2011 @ 4:00 PM |
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Yes. You should feel vacuum as you manually operate the pump. If not, I'd suspect the diaphragm or one of the valves in the pump. Many pumps sold today have been on the shelf for a long time, and may not by fuel proof. Apply air pressure to the fuel tank and observe the flow from the flex hose at the firewall. You may have a clogged fuel line. We see a lot of those now since the arrival of oxygenated fuel, which accelerates rust and loosens dirt .
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| Dolman | -- 07-02-2011 @ 5:02 PM |
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I thought so. The tank and fuel line are new and the engine ran fine with no sediment or rust in the inline fuel filter. I checked the new pump on the bench with a vacuum gauge while manually operating it...nearly dead. Looks like I got one of the defective pumps off the shelf. Well, it's in a box ready to return as soon as I get a RMA. Reminds me of my early Army days. Hurry up and wait.
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| TomO | -- 07-03-2011 @ 10:57 AM |
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I have had good luck with the Offenhauser pumps sold by Speedway Motors, and bad luck with the recent Airtex pumps. Tom
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| Dolman | -- 07-03-2011 @ 4:52 PM |
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Thanks for the recommendation, Tom. I am irritated just enough to decline a replacement pump, ask for a refund and order from Speedway. But looking at the picture on the Speedway, is that a rusty rocker arm cup? I have enough of that substance without buying more. No rush now. July 4 is tomorrow and Old Henry will be conspicuous by his absence from the parade. (Am I the only guy that names his vehicles?)
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| fordmerc | -- 07-03-2011 @ 6:14 PM |
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TomO: I did it wrong and opposite of what you describe; I'll try again 37Ragtopman: You can bend the fuel pump pushrod when you leave an unsecured engine in a trailer and go around a corner fast thus causing the engine to roll over. (During this maneuver, the fuel pump and tower had been removed to assure maximum damage to the protruding rod!) However, this was before the engine was rebuilt and the rod was replaced before the engine was installed. If the replacement rod is not made correctly, then it could be the problem, however, by measurement, it is correct. The rod moves up and down smoothly and vertically now. Car is 95 HP '39 Mercury (aluminum intake manifold). I attached (?) an image of my fuel pump on the right and one that works (from a '39 Ford) on the left. The one on the left works on my car, but it is not mine and must be returned to the owner. The difference is the angle of the pump arm lever, but everything taken alone looks fine - not bent, folded, stapled, or mutilated!
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-03-2011 @ 6:47 PM |
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Fordmerc, you earlier said that you assumed that the pump was original to your car. It was in fact first supplied on '48 Fords and Mercs, therefore not correct for your '39 Merc. If you are not concerned about originality, this pump should serve you well if the kit is installed as TomO instructed. Alan
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| ken ct. | -- 07-24-2011 @ 1:27 AM |
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47 was the first yr for the glass bowl pumps.I have the correct off-set inlet + outlet pumps for the 39 yr.These are all steel pumps not GB one.These are rebuilt original pumps with modern diaf and valves if interested. ken ct. PM or email igadore@sbcglobal.net
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 07-24-2011 @ 10:32 AM |
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fordmerc,did you try hooking up the fuel line from the back to the pump and try working the lever by hand to see if it pumps,? also have someone turn the engine over usings the starter, place yor finger on the top of the push rod,[ fuel pump removed,] and see if it has full movement, BEING the push rod was bent, I would make sure there is no damage to the push rod guide boss and bushing in the engine block,the slightest binding will cause the pump not to work, but you said the one you borrowed did work would rule this out, also make sure one of the fuel pump valves are in correct positions, I use THEN and NOW products and have great sucess with them, they also will rebuild the pump for you and test before sending out, also remember there are different fuel pumps makers and require the correct kit for them to work, THEN and NOW will ask you who made the pump so you get the correct kit, this may be a long shot,I think is is something simply and was overlooked. lets hear how you made out, 37 RAGTOPMAN
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| blarge | -- 07-24-2011 @ 6:12 PM |
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My 47 Merc would not start after a 3 month period. I put a vacuum gauge on the inlet of the flex line and it showed about 1 inch of Hg when cranking the engine. I tightened the thumb screw on the glass bowl and it then pulled 10 inches of Hg on the cranking motor. The pump has a cork gasket on the glass bowl that is 2 years old. I am investigating if a neoprene rubber gasket would be better on the glass bowl. You should be able to hold 15 inches of vacuum applied to the inlet hole of the pump with a hand vacuum pump if the glass bowl gasket and the inlet check valve in the pump is OK. This a bench test and easy to tell if the suction side of the pump is working before you put it on. Test your pump and the loner pump to see it they are the same on this suction side bench test. Bill Large
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| 37 Coupe | -- 07-25-2011 @ 6:40 AM |
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It will be interesting to see what others have to say about cork or neoprene for the glass bowl seal but here is my take. You were able to correct some of the shrinking or swelling of the cork seal by tightening,I have also been able to do this but not with the neoprene or whatever rubber gasket is composed of,when the ethanol alcohol gets to it,it is useless.I have removed them after only a short time and they are sometimes soft and swelled up that they will not go back in to fit,and this is with a pump that supposedly has fuel proof diapraghm. What I am saying is you may be going the wrong way. I have had good luck with cork ones I think I got from KenCt,look like rubber is impregnated in them but they seem to hold up lots better than all rubber ones or still workable at least. Last one I removed to clean bowl did not want to go back in so I searched for about half an hour for spare one I knew I had,by the time I found it the cork/rubber one was back to size so put it back in. Get some spares and put them where you can find them,or someplace obvious like with spare fuel pump This message was edited by 37 Coupe on 7-25-11 @ 7:40 AM
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| TomO | -- 07-25-2011 @ 7:10 AM |
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I have found that the rubberized cork seals work the best, followed by the all nitrile rubber and the least reliable is the all cork. Tom
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