Topic: Starting system

silverchief    -- 08-19-2019 @ 1:53 PM
  First question. New lead acid battery in my stock 46. Previous battery replaced by vendor even though it tested good. New battery will discharge overnight or start the car at residence, then not able to turn the engine after an hour at destination. Connected two separate test lights to positive post and to removed positive (grounding) cable - no sign of drain. Owners manual says use a volt meter in the same connection, and any voltage shown means there is a drain My voltmeter shows about 4 volts. I've done this twice with the same result.
What is recommended sequence in checking for short.

Second question. Owners manual says to test for open circuit in starting motor - press starting button and horn at same time. If horn blows there is an open circuit in the starting motor. Before pulling the starter, I would like to eliminate the solenoid as a possible culprit. It clicks when I hit the starter button or activate the push button on the bottom with the battery discharged, and appears to work properly
otherwise. Is their a test I can do?

Thanks for the help.

This message was edited by silverchief on 8-19-19 @ 2:10 PM

40 Coupe    -- 08-20-2019 @ 6:19 PM
  You do not have a short circuit, if you did have a short you could not get the car to start even with the battery charged. DO you have a clock? Get the wiring diagram for your car. Does your car have the original wiring or has it been modified? Charge the battery disconnected overnight. Put a voltmeter on the charged battery what is the voltage? Let the battery stand disconnected and read the battery voltage again the next day the voltage should be nearly identical to the charged battery voltage.

For your second question, what is the problem with the starter? I believe you said the car does start with a charged battery. If so the starter appears to be good.

Have you put your analog voltmeter on the battery with the engine running? Does the voltage increase when you increase the engine RPM?

37RAGTOPMAN    -- 08-21-2019 @ 2:10 PM
  hi silver chief
charge the battery, check the voltage, then disconnect the battery.
next day test the voltage.
connect the pos battery terminal and see if the car starts.,
if it does,
disconnect the pos battery terminal, put a test light bulb, between contacts from the terminal to ground, inline
if it lights,
start disconnecting various items to see what is the drain, and see what goes off,
also disconnect the generator wiring, it might be a drain also.
does it get warm over night ?
get back with the results you find,
hope this helps 37Ragtopman
like the clock, also I have seen the brake light switch go bad so the brake lights stay on, dash light
also check the dimmer switch, for corroded terminals.
HOW OLD IS THE WIRING ? very important might be frayed and making contact, very dangerous, could cause a FIRE

silverchief    -- 08-24-2019 @ 8:59 AM
  Hi guys

Took the starter to a reputable starter rebuilder. He Found no faults except something (don't recall) was "really dragging at the back plate."so I replaced the back plate. Asked if I had installed this start. I told him no, it came with the car and that excepting the past 6 months or so the starter had always performed nicely for the past 15 years. He showed me number 12 stamped into the top of the housing and advised the starter is or was at some time been a 12 volt.

Installed the starter with no improvement. Same problem. Plus, owners manual says if horn blows with starter engaged there is a short in the starter or the relay, so replacing the solenoid today.

Also, battery does not go completely dead overnight,
it only drops down to a little over 4 volts - but will not kick the engine over at that charge. Barely a solenoid click.
Put it on the charger for about 30 minutes and "boom" everything works perfectly - until you try to start it again a few hours later.

Replacing the solenoid today as it is the only thing left. It is of nice quality with a push button bottom and I will try an older one I have with my parts. If no change I'm putting the new one back on.

I'm going to print out and work through all your suggestions and will let you know what happens.

Thanks for your help.

silverchief    -- 08-24-2019 @ 9:02 AM
Forgot to mention complete new wiring harness installed last year.

MG    -- 08-24-2019 @ 9:39 AM
  "new wiring harness installed last year" - Recheck all the connections made to be sure this harness was installed correctly....

silverchief    -- 08-25-2019 @ 12:30 PM
  Battery is fully charged with both cables connected. Everything is dead. Lights, horn, radio.

Test light from negative battery post to batt side of solenoid shows nothing. Touching to ignition side post of solenoid shows nothing. Jumping the solenoid posts with pliers produces no spark whatsoever. No light when touching small terminal.

Test at ignition switch shows no power getting there.

With small terminal grounded, pushing bottom button on solenoid lights test light.

The test light also lights when I touch the solenoid case itself.

What is happening?

This message was edited by silverchief on 8-25-19 @ 1:02 PM

MG    -- 08-25-2019 @ 1:22 PM
  Show us some pictures of all the wiring under the hood....

silverchief    -- 08-25-2019 @ 2:24 PM
  From the time of it's installation a little over one year ago, there has never been any kind of the problem that points to the harness not being correctly wired. It is a Rhode Island harness patiently installed following their blueprint.
If that were the case it would have raised it's ugly head a long time before now.

MG    -- 08-25-2019 @ 3:08 PM
  Still, pictures would be very helpful....

37RAGTOPMAN    -- 08-25-2019 @ 3:16 PM
try using a heavy duty battery jumper cables, like you use to jump start a car,
go from pos ground battery . directly to the frame and engine,
check engine grounds, from frame to engine, maybe loose ? clean and tight,!!
is there any difference, I suspect a bad ground, or corroded terminals
also from the starter solenoid on the one terminal pos 10-14 gauge wire should be feeding the ignition switch, light switch and radio,off of your fuse block.,
how are the fuses. check for a loose terminals
someplace there is a loose connection,or a corroded terminals . broken wire,?
go over your wiring, step by step
any photo's ?
hope this helps, 37Ragtopman

silverchief    -- 08-26-2019 @ 10:58 AM
  Disconnected the battery yesterday, with it showing full charge. Checked it this morning and it is still showing a little over 6 volts.

However, when I tried to hook the battery back up, my newly rebuilt starter activates by itself. I pulled the push button from the dash to make sure it was not the reason, and then assumed the solenoid must be bad. Bought a new one and installed it. Same thing . Disconnecting and reconnecting the starter and solenoid is very easy and straight forward. Nothing else was touched, and all those cables and wiring are new. So now I am really lost.

silverchief    -- 08-26-2019 @ 12:29 PM
MG - Good thing I didn't send the pictures buddy. You would have seen the battery and starter cables hooked to the same side of the solenoid.

What was I saying about the hookup being easy and straightforward?


MG    -- 08-26-2019 @ 12:49 PM
Schematic >

This message was edited by MG on 8-26-19 @ 12:51 PM

silverchief    -- 08-30-2019 @ 1:03 PM
  Thanks MG - a very easy to read schematic.

TomO    -- 08-31-2019 @ 7:59 AM
  4 volt reading from a 6 volt battery means the battery is discharged and will not start the car. You need to read at least 6.0 volts with no load, to start the car. If you had an open circuit in the starter, it would not even try to turn the engine.

Your voltmeter test is showing a drain, your test light may not light up at 4 volts, so it is not showing a drain.

Repeat the voltmeter test and if it still shows voltage, disconnect the wire going the clock and recheck the for a drain with the voltmeter. If you still have a drain, disconnect the stop light switch and recheck. Next I would try the dome light circuit and then all of the other wires one at a time.


EFV-8 Club Forum :