| silverchief | -- 07-15-2019 @ 10:37 AM |
|
Previously mentioned reoccurring problem with my stock 46. After driving about a week sometimes the starter is to weak to turn the engine over even though the battery may show very low, or may show near full charge. Assumed my short slow trips to coffee were not allowing the generator to put enough charge back into the engine to overcome the power needed for repeated starts. I had the generator rebuilt about 3 years ago by a reputable shop. Putting a test light between a disconnected neg cable and that post shows no drain At slow speed, my amp meter shows just above neutral. Sitting at idle, if I turn the lights on, the meter shows strong discharge, but increasing to fast idle brings it right back up to where it was. Same using the radio as a draw. However, my new expensive battery tester shows no charging whatsoever taking place. Following instructions in thread of Tom O 7-5-17 I used a volt meter at the regulator to observe not running and fast idle output. In both instances both readings were slightly below what they should be. I haven't tested the starter but don't really suspect it because when the battery is good it acts strong. I have another alternator which I believe is good and could switch them but thought I would ask for comments first.
|
|
| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 07-15-2019 @ 1:19 PM |
|
if your GENERATOR and regulator is working correctly, you should have no problems, the REG should COMPENSATES for currant draw , like the lights and radio,when you turn them on and should maintain the battery at full charge, if it does not there is a problem with the REG, or generator is weak, it might be dirty from sitting, if it is a 30 amp generator it should put out 30 amps, if needed turn on all lights, radio ,etc, at idle it should read discharge. rev the engine it should read charge, if the generator is good and also the regulator., my question, when you installed the generator and regulator, did YOU POLARIZE THEM ? hope this helps 37RAGTOPMAN
|
|
| 51woodie | -- 07-15-2019 @ 1:47 PM |
|
silverchief I struggled with my stock '46 charging as well. As there are no experts in my area I cheated and installed a Powermaster 6V 60A + ground alternator that is a bolt on unit c/w pulley. I got mine from Bob Drake, but Summit has better pricing now. I ran a #6 wire from the alt output to the battery side of the starter solenoid and a ground wire to a manifold bolt. I taped up the original gen wires and tucked them under the alternator and left the regulator I place so things look original. I could have done a different connection on the charging wire so there is an indication on the ammeter, but I have had no problems after two summers of fairly regular driving. The light are bright at night and don't go dim at idle. https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/pwm-82016/overview/
|
|
| Drbrown | -- 07-15-2019 @ 10:20 PM |
|
My '47 came with a 1-wire Delco 10 - 50 amp alt. I improved it with 3-wire Delco 12 - 70 amp alternator wired thru the stock dash amp gauge and thru aftermarket voltage and amp gauges. The 3-wire allows the Alternator to charge all the time. After sitting it will charge at 14.5 volts and 20 anps. After driving it charges at about 3 to 4 amps. Head light brihtness is constant. This message was edited by Drbrown on 7-15-19 @ 10:22 PM
|
|
| TomO | -- 07-16-2019 @ 7:18 AM |
|
Bill, it sounds like your charging system is most likely working as designed. "At slow speed, my amp meter shows just above neutral. Sitting at idle, if I turn the lights on, the meter shows strong discharge, but increasing to fast idle brings it right back up to where it was. Same using the radio as a draw." The "ammeter is showing a slight charge at slow speeds" the ammeter is showing the total current flow in the car. With a charged battery and no accessories turned on, there should be a slight positive current flow to maintain the battery charge. When you turn on an accessory, you will see the ammeter show negative current flow until the generator is turning fast enough to overcome the negative flow. If you battery is discharged half way, the ammeter should show a positive current flow for a considerable time, until the battery reaches a charged state. How far the needle goes towards positive flow depends upon the speed that you are traveling and the state of charge of the battery. Please let me know the make and model of your battery tester, so I can look up how to use it and what to expect when used. Also let me know where you have it connected when testing and the redings that you are getting. Tom
|
|
| silverchief | -- 07-16-2019 @ 9:55 AM |
|
Sorry guys - senior moment, I meant voltage REGULATOR not alternator. 37RAGTOPMAN - thanks for input. 51Woodie and Dr.Brown - interesting suggestion guys, but I agree with the members who say, "If you have it working correctly, original equipment works just fine." Tom - my "Professional Battery Tester" is from O'Reilly Auto Parts and the brand name - SUPER START belongs to Ozark Automotive Distributors. Paid $65.00 and it is made in China, but my close inspection gives every indication it is a quality product. Tests both 6 and 12 volt batteries for "Good or Bad" Voltage supply, charging system voltage, and starter cranking volts. I haven't run the starter test yet because I'm still not sure how it is done. Also, I think I may have misread it's charging system report so need to do that again. It has two heavy duty clamps and cables, for attaching to the respective posts, some tests with engine off, some with it running. I will let you guys know what happens as I go along.
|
|
| GK1918 | -- 07-18-2019 @ 4:20 AM |
|
I too have a 1946 super deluxe 'only wheels I drive'. Early this month Its not starting like it did last month. Napa commercial battery that I thought was no good. So I put another (same type battery) from my tractor - same thing. I replaced with a new Ford starter still in the box my father bought in the 50's. Same thing, no its not ground cables. Just for kicks, I put on a new solenoid. Now instant start whips over like 12 volts. Next engine running with voltmeter I got like 6.3 6.4 volts and 15 amps on the gauge which is a no go, book says should be 7.5 or so volts. next I tweaked the middle contact on the regulator untill I got that 7.5 volts. Next pick up the tools go for a ride. Start car take off now the ammeter shows oh 30 amps. within 2-3 miles ammeter trickles back to 15 amps. (I'm probably going 35 40 mph) turn on lights heater and amp gauge jumped a little over 15 maybe 16 . Turn off lights heater kept driving and amp trickled down almost to the middle of the gauge. Shut off engine now just touch the button and its running. So I'm saying original style regulators are adjustable with little screw and lock nut and most replacment regulators you have to bend a tab for more spring tension I do this with engine running about 20mph adjusting while watching the voltmeter. work for me !! sam
|
|
| TomO | -- 07-18-2019 @ 10:54 AM |
|
Bill, your tester is a battery load tester and it will do a good job of testing the battery. It will also give you voltage readings when you use your starter and when the generator is charging. You have to be careful and use it just as the instructions say or you will get incorrect results. Tom
|
|
| silverchief | -- 07-20-2019 @ 12:07 PM |
|
Correct. I like the battery tester, but some instructions re proper usage are vague. Perhaps written by a Chinese language interpreter. Anyway, today I utilized several "threads" to run tests regarding the generator idle output, starter, regulator, and solenoid. Running these tests involves starting and stopping the engine several times over a one hour period. At no time did any of these units fail to operate. The starter in particular did not act up. Some voltmeter readings were just a little shy of the desired reading, but nothing was way off. Also, before running the tests I installed a brand new Duracell battery. Tomorrow I am going to test for generator output of at least 7.2 volts at fast idle. If it is low, I have another regulator I can install to see if will cause more output.
|
|
| silverchief | -- 07-21-2019 @ 2:57 PM |
|
Today I grounded my voltmeter then put the opposite lead in the Batt terminal of the regulator. Increasing engine speed to about 1500 rpm easily brought the volts reading to 7.4 So far none of the starting or charging circuit units shows an obvious problem. Tomorrow I'm going to use the battery tester to run another test on the starter itself, but reading instructions on the battery tester leaves me unsure as to what kind of reading I should be looking for.
|
|
| silverchief | -- 07-23-2019 @ 8:14 AM |
|
I have the idle on my car set at 600 rpm, which is the sweet spot where it appears most happy. My generator puts out slightly under 6 volts at that idle. Because of regular slow speed, short trips, I still suspect the battery gets short changed on every trip insofar as replacing juice needed to start - until after a week or so it is too depleted to start the car. I would like to increase the generator output, but understand that messing with the regulator is a no no. I have two NEW regulators bought from a member retiring from the hobby. Is replacing my regulator likely to fix my concern? One is made in the USA and is identical to the one in use. The other one, also new, has "7 volts" printed on the left side of it's face, and "50 amps" on the right side. What is that all about? I am really leery of that. If I go to the trouble of installing a new regulator, should that result in my generator a little higher and more correct, or should I try something else first.
|
|
| TomO | -- 07-24-2019 @ 7:40 AM |
|
Bill, your charging system is working as designed. Changing the regulator will probably not change the problem. A higher rate of charge could damage the battery or cause it to explode. Disconnect the grounding cable from the battery and connect a battery tender to your battery every time you park your car in the garage. This 5 minute exercise will save you lots of aggravation and problems. It will also keep your battery charged and extend its life. Also I recommend that after your lunch or coffee, you drive the car for 30 minutes to bring the oil up to temperature and evaporate the water and unburned fuel in the oil. This will make you oil cleaner and reduce sludge build up in the engine. You can install an alternator, which may charge your battery at idle, but I believe that you will still have the same problems and may develop new ones. I took the alternator off of my Lincoln because it would only last about 6 months between repairs. The generator has been trouble free. Tom
|
|
| silverchief | -- 07-24-2019 @ 11:59 AM |
|
Thanks Tom. I have a battery tender and might as well bite the bullet and start using it. Better than calling a tow truck - which I had to do last week. Very embarrassing.
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=13070 |