Topic: Diamondback Radial Tires

39Fordfan	-- 04-28-2017 @ 12:56 PM
	I have been running Bias Ply Firestone Tires on my '39 Deluxe and I am looking at purchasing a set of Diamondback Radial Tires. These tires are marketed as Auburn Radials with a "Piecrust" Shoulder designed to look like Bias Ply tires as opposed to the rounded radials that tend to give what I would call a "Rod" look. (See Picture Below.) Just wondering if anybody has tried them out yet and what your thoughts and opinions are on them? I haven't seen a counterpart from Coker, but wondered if people have opinions about them as well. Also wondered if there is anything I should know about converting to radials? Thanks!
carcrazy	-- 04-28-2017 @ 3:01 PM
	You first have to ask yourself why you want to install radial tires. If you want improved ride and handling while maintaining an "old time look", then go with the expensive "show car tires". If you want the performance, handling, and ride closer to those of modern cars, then go with "modern car radials". They may not look "correct" but they are much more reliable and affordable. I have chosen the modern tires and have been very happy with the results - the car can be driven cross-country with no tire problems or worries!
alanwoodieman	-- 04-28-2017 @ 8:22 PM
	I have been running an Ecopia radial on my 40 wagon for close to 5 years. these are actually Firestone/Bridgestone tires 195R8016 I think. these are for an electric car and are high pressure 40 lbs tires.
39Fordfan	-- 04-29-2017 @ 11:33 AM
	Thanks for your replies Car Crazy and Alanwoodieman! I read a thread about those electric car tires. I think you are correct Alan, 6.00 X 16 Standard US equates to 195/80R16 metric, which is the size mine takes too. Sounds like they have been performing well for you. Thanks for sharing a picture of them! Car crazy - I certainly can appreciate the vast difference in performance between Bias Plys and Radials, I was hoping to get both the look of Bias Plys, but the ride and handling of Radials. I talked to a guy at Diamondback and he said even though these have the "Piecrust" shoulder and look of Bias Plys, they are radials. And they behave and perform like radials even though they look like Bias Plys. Are you saying even though these "Piecrust" tires are radials, the more rounded type radials will perform better? Thanks!
carcrazy	-- 04-29-2017 @ 9:46 PM
	Ask the folks at Diamondback if these "piecrust" radials are intended to be driven on and used like a modern radial tire or if they are intended mostly for show cars which are trailered into shows and are never driven for long distances on highways at speed.
len47merc	-- 04-30-2017 @ 5:08 AM
	That is a great, Great question to ask Diamondback carcrazy. 39Fordfan - please keep us posted on what you are told if you do ask that question as well as what your final decision is and the results. Also 39Fordfan, you do have options if you decide to go the 'original look' radial route. Not advocating either way, just informing there are options - suggest asking Coker the same question if you call them as well. Here is their 'counterpart': https://www.cokertire.com/american-classic-bias-profile-radials.html EDIT - btw, although I'm glad to have my bias ply Firestones for the look and local use, wish I'd asked the same question of Coker before purchasing them 3+ years ago. Would have better calibrated expectations and saved a lot of headaches. Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 4-30-17 @ 5:20 AM
JayChicago	-- 04-30-2017 @ 6:54 PM
	I sure hope the Diamondback Auburn radial is fit to drive on, because I just bought a set! I didn't think to ask that question before I ordered. The new tires were just delivered two days ago, not mounted yet, so I can't offer any feed-back on how they handle. And of course it will be some time before I know how they hold up over the long-haul. When I was talking about buying new tires, many club members advised me to go radial for the better driving feel, although others said stay with bias ply. My 1940 came to me with correct-looking bias ply tires, and I love the look of that piecrust shoulder. So my decision was to pay the premium to get radials with the piecrust profile. I hope no regrets to follow. In shopping I found only Diamondback's Auburn, and Cooker's American Classic, have that piecrust look. Their prices are about the same. I also found that Cooker's is not available in 16 inch! And Diamondback's is only available in 600-16. Apparently they each decided not to compete with the other in a niche-market that will have limited sales, so each is stocking only what the other is not stocking.
39Fordfan	-- 05-01-2017 @ 1:25 PM
	I got off the phone with James at Diamond Back and asked him your question, Carcrazy. James's answer was as follows. "These tires are Speed Rated. 5 years of Research and Development went into these tires before Diamond Back brought them to market. Though not warranted as such, they are rated to 40,000 miles. They will not compare 100% to modern round shouldered radials as far as going around corners fast. They were not designed for racing. However, they are vastly better than Bias Ply tires which are often now made in 3rd world countries not to the exacting standards of their well known Name Brand ancestors which these cars came with originally - anyone can license a Brand name for private label." There you have it. I didn't call Coker as they don't offer my size 6.00 X 16 in a "Piecrust" designed Radial as JayChicago mentioned. They do seem to offer it in a round shoulder design though. If it would ever stop raining here, I'll take my car down to the the classic tire dealer and pick his brain about it a bit too. I've got a driver not trailer queen and you guys have been extremely helpful. Thank-you!
39 Ken	-- 05-02-2017 @ 5:32 AM
	alanwoodieman. Any additional details in your Ecopia radials. Bridgestone says that these tires need 5 to 5 1/2 inch wheel width. I assume you are still using the 4 inch wide wheels. If so, what speeds do you run, how do they handle, etc. Thanks.
1934 Ford	-- 05-16-2017 @ 11:33 AM
	I've been using Diamondback wide white radial tires for 19 years on our 35 Buick. Just added a set to our 66 VW this week. Radial tire take the VW from an economy to a sports car. I still use Coker's on our 34 Ford for the Glidden & Sentimental Tours, but maybe next time I'll try the "Bias Look Radials. At one time I thought the bias ply's lasted longer, but I've changed my mind because I've yet to wear the tread off a radial tire on any antique car. Can't say that for the bias tires. 1934 Ford's since 1972
OLDTMR	-- 05-16-2017 @ 5:35 PM
	I have just installed a set of Diamond Back radials on my 40. Went out for a short ride this evening and I notice a difference in ride quality right away. We live on a pretty rough paved road . I was a bit disappointed to see they came from another country not USA. I believe there is less tread than the bias I took off which had a lot more miles . If I had not discovered cracks on the inside side wall I might have kept the bias on longer. I also assumed the others all had cracks and did not check. Come to find out the other three are in great shape ! I also talked with James at Diamondback a few times as well as e-mailing Coker reps. Thats my take whatever its worth ?
JayChicago	-- 05-17-2017 @ 1:07 PM
	Here is a picture of a Diamondback Auburn, as it looks mounted on the car.
len47merc	-- 05-17-2017 @ 3:59 PM
	Looks Great! Obvious difference in handling? Have you driven it at 70 mph and if so how'd it do in terms of smoothness/vibration? Steve
Bob-93021	-- 05-17-2017 @ 6:55 PM
	Jay, Those look great! Hard to believe that they are radials. What rim width are you using. Thanks - Bob
woodiewagon46	-- 05-18-2017 @ 9:06 AM
	This topic has been covered several times on the H.A.M.B. For anyone that does not know what the H.A.M.B. is, it is a site dedicated to Hot Rodder's especially flathead people. I am not going to open a can of worms, but do your research before purchasing Coker tires. If you can access their site, I think you will find some very interesting issues with Coker tires.
len47merc	-- 05-18-2017 @ 1:34 PM
	Plenty to find on the same subject on this forum as well woodiewagon46. Good advice you give regardless of the source, but plenty here on what you referenced. Steve
JayChicago	-- 05-19-2017 @ 11:17 AM
	Bob-93021: As far as I know the wheels are original to the car, which I believe are 4 inch width. len47merc asked: "Obvious difference in handling? Have you driven it at 70 mph and if so how'd it do in terms of smoothness/vibration?" There is obvious difference in handling; the radials squish and absorb road imperfections better than the my old bias-ply tires did. But I have to say that its not a dramatic difference. I probably could have saved $100 per tire if I went with bias-ply. Was it worth it? I don't know....if I had to make the decision over again, maybe I would just save the money. I have driven on expressway at 55 MPH. Very smooth, no vibrations. I had the new tires mounted by a good tire shop that took the time to get each wheel/tire balanced well. That's probably an important factor. They told me that with one that needed excessive weights to get balanced, they broke it down again and rotated the tire 180 degrees. BTW, you were kidding about the 70 MPH, weren't you? I like Mike Kubarth's clever comment from a previous post about mating a Columbia overdrive with a high rear-end: "I can imagine doing 75MPH+ in a '40 Ford. I can't imagine stopping and/or steering well in case of an emergency. "
len47merc	-- 05-19-2017 @ 1:21 PM
	No I was not kidding about the 70 miles per hour - however, if you look at my reply to that same discussion thread as that with Mike's quotation you referenced you'll see I agreed with him and in other discussions I've posted that I never drive my '47 above 55 miles per hour on the speedometer for the exact same reasons. Many people who decide to put on radials do so not only for the change in handling but also so they 'feel' safer driving their cars, potentially with overdrive, at interstate speeds - something I would never do but is why I asked the question. I've also noticed that tires - particular bias plys - that ride fairly smooth up to 55 miles per hour start to show their deficiencies above that point and you can start to feel their inability to pass a road force test in vibration for various manufacturing reasons. Given all of this I was just curious if you did drive it at 70 whether they still rode smooth because again I've experienced bias plys that did just fine at 55 but when you tried to push them beyond that speed you started getting vibration. Hearing your comment that one of your tires had to be rotated 180 degrees due to excessive weight required also is quite telling to me personally and good information for you to have shared. Let us know your thoughts after you've driven them for a while. Thanks! Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 5-19-17 @ 2:30 PM
woodiewagon46	-- 05-19-2017 @ 3:52 PM
	I live on Long Island and just trying to get off this Island is a task. Forget the traffic, but the tractor trailer "ruts" create a white knuckle trip. The radials made the "ruts" a lot easier to cope with and the ride a lot smoother.
len47merc	-- 05-19-2017 @ 4:30 PM
	'The Thrill is Gone...!' Steve
Drbrown	-- 05-19-2017 @ 9:06 PM
	There certainly appears to be consensus that radials ride and handle better than bias ply, notably in the upper speed range. Regarding upper speed ranges, and with a BW overdrive, my 15 inch Coker Classic bias-plies roll along nicely at say 65 mph .... this of course with well-tuned front end over smooth interstate highway pavement. And yes, they insist on following a good pavement rut or raised pavement edge.
len47merc	-- 05-20-2017 @ 7:00 AM
	I'm with Drbrown in that a GOOD set of bias plys will run well at 65-70 mph (or faster) on a, as he says, well-tuned suspension. I just fear the inevitable emergency maneuver that the car is incapable of handling at those speeds, hence 55 MAX on the speedo for my personal peace-of-mind and comfort (equates to 60 mph GPS - running 710s on the '47). I have every reason to believe any of the bias plys - Cokers, Firestones, etc., do not have adequate quality control in the current manufacturing processes to ensure consistent density of the rubber compound and roundness of the tires for them to consistently meet road-force testing on a Hunter machine and hence run smoothly without minor to unbearable wheel hop as one moves above 55 mph. JayChicago's comment about having to rotate one of the Auburns 180 degrees to avoid excessive weight, combined with an earlier quote from another Forum member that Diamondback representatives would not state unequivocally that the Auburns were manufactured to standards guaranteeing the ride and safety at interstate speeds, suggest to me the same exists for the original look radials. Not to say I wouldn't consider the Auburns for my next set on the '47 after the Firestones expire - I actually am after seeing the posted pic above - just that I will never again go through multiple tires/sets to get 4 tires that are at minimum reasonably round, pass road force testing on a Hunter machine (consistent compound density and roundness) and require NO MORE than 2 ozs of weight to balance. Just keep it at 55 on the speedo and roll on. For comparison purposes, I just put a new set of performance BF Goodrich g-Force Comp 2 tires on an '03 Infiniti my son and I use for grins and giggles around town and at Virginia International Raceway. Like the '47 when they installed the bias plys I was there to watch the tires mounted and balanced - perfectly round, registered zero road-force concerns (barely moved the 'needle') and 2 of the 4 tires required no weight at all, 1 tire 0.25 oz and the 4th .5 oz. Conversely, ALL of the bias plys I have witnessed on the same machine during balancing exhibited very high to unacceptable levels - some off the chart and were completely rejected - of road-force issues and took significant effort to balance the best ones (rotating 180 degrees, etc.) without heavy weights. And consistent, tire-to-tire roundness on the bias plys during balancing - 'forgettt abooouuut it'! Accordingly, while they will run smooth at interstate speeds if you get a GOOD set and your suspension is 'right', I personally have no faith any of these tires - bias plys or bias ply-look radials - are consistently manufactured to the technical and quality levels necessary to run safely at those higher speeds. As for me and the '47 - we'll stay below 60 GPS and enjoy the ride. Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 5-20-17 @ 8:09 AM
TomO	-- 05-20-2017 @ 9:29 AM
	Has anyone looked at the DOT label on these tires? What does it say? It will give you tread wear, traction temperature, DOT number, max pressure, max load, speed rating. Here is how to interpret the DOT codes http://www.autoguide.com/buyers-guide/how-to-read-a-tire-sidewall-1060.html Tom
trjford8	-- 05-20-2017 @ 10:39 AM
	Great article TomO. I've printed it out for my garage library.
39Fordfan	-- 05-25-2017 @ 11:55 AM
	I just had the Diamondback "Piecrust" Radials installed yesterday. I love them! I'll qualify that a bit by saying my experience is a relative thing. My feedback is similar to Jay's, they probably aren't as smooth and good handling as the rounded shoulder (Rod Look) radials. But they are a huge upgrade from the old Firestones the car had on it. The old Bias-ply Firestones were a safety hazard, they weren't cracked but were deformed enough from sitting they couldn't even be balanced. So at certain slow speeds the car would shimmy after hitting a bump until the tires were warmed enough. These radials allow you to take your hands off the wheel and the car won't track the grooves or ruts and they have a softer feel. My car has a 95 HP Mercury engine in it and within the confines of this tire discussion, they definitely feel just fine at 70MPH. Diamondback is the only one who makes these Piecrust radials in this size, 6.00 x 16. This is the only size Diamondback makes them in. Coker makes the Piecrust radials in other the other sizes. You can get the rounded Rod Look radials from other manufacturers for cheaper too. What I just said could could change at anytime, I guess. I think these Diamondbacks strike a nice balance between modern performance and period correct looks. I'm glad I bought them. We'll see if I feel this way in 3 to 5 years. I posted a picture of my car, before and after installation. Interested in what you think?
len47merc	-- 05-25-2017 @ 2:17 PM
	To answer TomO's question - the Diamondback Auburn Deluxe's (piecrust, WWW) are 'P' speed rated (93 mph), 400 Treadwear rating, AA Temperature rated, max pressure ~60 psi, 98 load rating = 1653 lbs. These figures are for 710 15" tires but I was informed this should be relatively close for all sizes. Recommended running pressure was stated by Diamondback sales/tech as 40-44 psi. Tires are guaranteed to pass road force testing. Steve
53mike	-- 05-25-2017 @ 9:22 PM
	I have always been a "no way I'll buy bias ply tires" type of guy. My 53 Sunliner has (had) 205/75/15 Coker classic radials. The ride was ok. The stock 53 suspension is nothing to get excited about, I suspect some what better then the earlier 30's-40's cars. I decided a couple weeks ago that I wanted wider whites then the 2 3/8" of the Coker radial. The only tire I could find with 3 7/8" ww was a bias ply BFG. I wanted a radial but the sizes were too far off and the BFG 710-15 fit the bill exactly for me. I thought about it and decided that the car, even with radials wasn't a "good handling" one by design and I don't drive any significant distances. So I bought the bias ply BFG's and was surprised when they felt no different then the radials I replaced. There is a very slight difference at 70 mph but if I didn't know the tires were replaced I wouldn't have thought any difference. They also feel smoother, less road feel I guess. Personnaly now I think that if going from bias to radial and you notice a great difference you probably had very bad bias tires. I have had bias ply tires that would run out of balance until they warmed up but that was years ago and these BFG's have none of that.

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