| DMD | -- 06-14-2010 @ 7:40 AM |
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I have a 1945 1/2 ton pickup and on the frame and outer housing of the transmission the number reads *99C-659713* and on the motor block (the back of the bell housing) reads C17544. Which of these numbers is the correct number to be listed on the truck title and are these the correct production numbers of the year 1945?
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| TomO | -- 06-14-2010 @ 10:19 AM |
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The number on the frame would normally be the number on the title. The numbers are in the range of a 45 commercial vehicle. Tom
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| supereal | -- 06-14-2010 @ 10:59 AM |
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As I recall, there was a government embargo on vehicle production in 1945, with exceptions for emergency services and school busses. The remaining vehicles were directed to the military, which had their own serial number system, which may account for unusual designations. Any surviving vehicles, likely military surplus, probably received different engines and/or transmissions over the years, leaving only the frame number, if any, to provide information. As the frame and transmission numbers agree, that would be the registration VIN. This message was edited by supereal on 6-14-10 @ 11:01 AM
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| DMD | -- 06-14-2010 @ 6:42 PM |
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Hey Guy's thanks for your information, now I'm really confused! Because on my title the vin number reads C17544 which is the number stamped on the bell housing in the back of the motor. Why is that? Other info I gathered the serial numbers for the production year of 1946 started at 99A650,280 - 99A1,412,709. Seeing that my number reads 99C659,713 and my title says 1945, does this mean that this is a 1946 truck? What does the 99C mean?
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| alanwoodieman | -- 06-15-2010 @ 8:20 AM |
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99 usually identified that frame as having the higher hp or mercury engine installed in it originally. Is the number stamped into the engine or the top part of the transmission? Normal Ford production procedures were to have the transmission stamped at the engine plant and when that engine was placed into the frame, that number was transfeered to the frame, usually in at least two places sometimes three.
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| supereal | -- 06-15-2010 @ 8:46 AM |
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If you have a valid title with a number accepted by your DMV. I wouldn't look for alternatives for registration. Usually, that opens the proverbial "can of worms" when tangible proof is needed. Given the unique status of the 1945 vehicles, that could be tough. Any Ford vehicles manufactured after 1942 until early 1946 were produced with leftover parts and arbitrary numbers, in most cases. Most year and model tables don't list numbers for 1945. In 1942, the letter "C" was used to designate a six cylinder engine in some "special" models. If your truck is a six, that may account for the number.
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| Rusty | -- 06-15-2010 @ 12:34 PM |
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All very good posts and as Superreal says, you might not want to mess with that accepted vin with your DMV. All that aside, the 99C signifies a 100 hp pickup. 99A signifies a passenger car. Ford was the first to restart passenger car production after WWII in July 1945. Prior to that they had been granted permission by the OPA to resume truck production. For some odd reason, these trucks are more commonly titled as 1945's versus the cars assembled during this time frame. The sixes introduced in 1941 were designated 1GA. Look up the prefix for the coil for the 42-48 Ford and that's the number you will find. The sixes had the flat distributor before the V-8's. When the six cylinder engine was changed in 1947,it became the 'H'.
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| DMD | -- 06-15-2010 @ 5:43 PM |
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Hey guys thanks once again for responding to my post. Here's a question I'm going to throw out...Why do you think the C17544 which is on the bell housing (stamped in raised numbers) is on my title, instead of the true vin number *99C659,713* which is on the frame and transmission? Did somebody else change that or do you think it was a factory screwup? The motor is a flathead V/8 which is stamped on each head 59A. Would anyone know if the C17544 is a correct block for the production year 1945?
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| trjford8 | -- 06-15-2010 @ 6:50 PM |
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DMD, depending on the state in which the truck was first registered they may have required the use of the engine number. Up until 1955 when the manufacturers started using a specific VIN number there were no hard and fast rules for the use of numbers( engine or frame) by the states. VIN numbers were developed for three reasons; #1)to identify a specific vehicle as to model, engine type,body type and production number and #2) was to make it easier to identify stolen vehicles and #3) a standardized way for the states to use this number when registering vehicles. This message was edited by trjford8 on 6-15-10 @ 7:39 PM
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| alanwoodieman | -- 06-16-2010 @ 8:20 AM |
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some states did not have titles until the sixties, after that to obtain a title you had to have a bill of sale and a tracing of the number on the frame which was notorized, seems some one used the rubbing of the engine block number as oppossed to the actual seriel number. That aside as supereal said don't fix it if it ain't broke!! also those numbers that you are referring to are not "stamped" but cast into the heads,block, etc when there were manufactered
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| supereal | -- 06-17-2010 @ 8:40 AM |
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As I mentioned above, there was a "C" designation used for "special" models in 1942, according to the "Ford Chronicles" by Flamming, but doesn't seem to appear later. A good guess would probably be that the "C" would denote "commercial cars", as Ford designated light truck, sedan deliveries and station wagons, etc. I suspect that with the OPA attempting to throttle new vehicle sales as WWII ended. numbering was the last thing Ford worried about. A hard and fast rule about buying any old car is to be sure that it has a valid title and current registration. Don't hand over your money until you have it. It is the responsibility of the seller to produce legal proof of ownership, no exceptions, if you plan to drive the vehicle.
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| DMD | -- 06-18-2010 @ 5:16 AM |
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Boy, I know were to go with all my Ford problems, you guy's have been great! So all and all who cares about what number is on the title as long as it matches a number on the truck. What I don't like about it, it is a lot easier to open the hood and verify the vin number off of the frame then to crawl underneath the truck and read the bell housing. I also have a 1937 and a 1939 and that is how they are registered from the frame number. The reason I"m asking about this vin number dilemma is because my title has to be transferred. If I am going to change anything now is the time.
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| alanwoodieman | -- 06-18-2010 @ 8:06 AM |
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If you want to try to fix this now, go to the registration office and ask them about doing so, do NOT take any paper work with you. Tell them you have looked to purchase this vehicle and then be honest and tell them what you suspect and ask for there advice, I have had to do so with a 57 chev. Had to put a bond on the title so any one could try to claim it with the proper paper work. After three they gave me a new title. In SC they were not title state until 1963, they just ran the good seriel number thru a national data base and when it did not come up as stolen the gave me the paper work to do so, had to get a highway patrolman to verify the seriel number on frame
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| trjford8 | -- 06-18-2010 @ 9:21 PM |
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Depending on where you live you may try to contact a licensed VIN verifier. They are licensed and bonded and can process then paper work for you for a fee. I used one when I bought a car and disovered that the VIN was one number off. I had a valid title and somewhere along the line someone mistook a 7 for a 1. The verifier was able to check the number on the car and found that there was no record of the number. She filled out the appropriate paper work along with the title and sent it in with my fees. It was processed and now the number matches the new title. Much easier than trying to navigate the DMV.
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| kubes40 | -- 06-19-2010 @ 8:28 AM |
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Supereal, You know I am a fan of yours. I always seem to learn something from your posts. This is the first time I do not however agree with you in totality. In Wisconsin (at least) it is the buyers responsibility to be certain the title agrees with the vehicles numbers as well as the buyers responsibility to be certain the title is clear and there are no 'hidden' liens. Hence, "buyer beware". There have been instances where a vehicle has been bought and sold NUMEROUS times over the course of 20+ years only to find it was stolen that many years ago. Wisconsin law... it goes back to it's rightful owner. No gray areas here.
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| supereal | -- 06-19-2010 @ 9:32 AM |
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Thank you for your kind words. I think we are on the same page. My intent was to warn buyers that it is essential that any title offered by a seller be proven to be valid. This places the burden on the seller, as the buyer usually has little or no recourse even if the DMV accepts the title to register the vehicle. A vivid example hit the news this week. A Ford pickup stolen in Texas over 30 years ago was returned to the rightful owner after a vigilant DMV clerk carefully checked the chain of title. The truck had been sold several times over the years after being stolen, and legally reregistered. I ran into this years ago when I was offered a nice Model A. The "owner" swore he had never titled the car, but I found a title in a neighboring county with several active liens on it. It seems he had pledged it as collateral for several loans, and the lenders didn't bother to run a lien search on the "owner". When I am skeptical of a seller's claims, I offer to deposit the agreed price in escrow with a third party until the title is proven clear. Even then, I usually ask for a "bonded title" at the DMV, which bond amount, instead of the car, would be forfeited in the event a putative "owner" shows up. In this age of plentiful scams, that possibility is far from remote. I do agree that the buyer is charged with providing correct title data at the time of registration, but if a faulty or missing title later turns up fraud, almost always the seller is long gone. So often, in the heat of chasing a vehicle we really want, it is too easy to get sloppy and be fleeced. I found that out many years ago.
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| kubes40 | -- 06-19-2010 @ 1:52 PM |
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There have been similar stories in this area. One I knew of personally. It involved four used car lots in the neighboring city. All involved but one of those guys went to prison. Hmmm... I wonder why? You are certainly offering great advice. That 'buyer beware' carries a lot of weight.
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| OLDTMR | -- 04-19-2018 @ 9:35 AM |
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Going crazy here with ID #. Trans # is H27156, (Truck is Canadian built in 1946) anyone help out with this ?
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