| thunder road | -- 04-04-2018 @ 10:11 AM |
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The switch on the right is a 39-40 Ford NOS hot water heater switch, with its original box. Above it is a 1940 reproduction knob along with a reproduction 39-40 hot water heater wire harness. The picture on the left shows an NOS 1941 thru 1948 hot water heater switch. Above it is a 1939 reproduction knob, along with 1941 thru 1948 reproduction hot water heater wire harness. Ford used the company ARK-LES made in USA to provide their switch’s. The 41 thru 48 Ark- Les switch was a big improvement over the 39-40 switch. They used one heavy resistor on the 41-48 switch, and they positioned it in the center of the switch, where it is very protected from being damaged. On the 39-40 switch they used two lighter duty resistors positioned at the outer edge's and they were more susceptible to damaged. Never run the switches on low, as this produces more resistance and will make the switch hot. Larry Caplin purchased the molds to reproduce the 1940 hot water heater knobs from Tom Cherry Jr. and then, Larry went on to have the 1939 knob molds made and" was" also re-producing the 1939 knob. At the moment he has about a dozen 1939 re-production knobs left to sell, and no more 1940 re-production knobs. Since he has to make a run of about 350 knobs each run, he will not be re-producing any more .I hope Bob Drake buys the molds and keeps it going. Larry can still supply you with either the 39-40 or the 41 -48 reproduction wiring harness. If you have a good genuine 1941- thru 1948 Ark-Les switch , you can easily pull the knob together with the brass collar straight off of it, and replace it with a 1939 or 1940 reproduction knob if you are also lucky enough to have a good correct 39-40 chrome bezel, just use the 1941- 1948 slide on terminal wire harness you are good to go. No one will know unless they crawl up under your dash. As time goes on and these correct electrical switches become impossible to find I believe the judges should be more lenient on this part, as no one wants to burn their car down. Domenic This message was edited by thunder road on 4-4-18 @ 5:45 PM
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| TomO | -- 04-05-2018 @ 6:42 AM |
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The 41-48 heater switches are not identical. The 41 and maybe the 42 have screw terminals and the knob is smaller than the 46-48 switch with the slip on terminals. The 41 is also a different color than the 46-48 switch.. I do not have any 41 heater switches left or I would take a photo. The only photo thta I have is too blurry to show the details. The Judging Standards Committee makes the decisions on what should be a point deduction. IMHO because the heater is an accessory and not necessary to the operation of the car, an incorrect switch or knob should still require a point deduction. Tom
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| kubes40 | -- 04-05-2018 @ 3:42 PM |
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Tom, In my experience, an incorrect ANYTHING receives a point deduction. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| cliftford | -- 04-05-2018 @ 4:22 PM |
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On my '48 the heater and defrost knobs are clear with red lettering. I'm sure they are not original. Does anyone know what years these were used?
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| thunder road | -- 04-05-2018 @ 4:35 PM |
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Mike and Tom thanks for the details on this elusive part. On another important note, their were after market switches being produced for the 41-48 fords , besides the original ARK-LES one. On some of these aftermarket ones the knob will not pull out with the brass collar intact, so they will not work to make a recreation of the 39- 40 switch. If the car has the correct 39-40 chrome bezel and 39 or 40 correct reproduction knob, and the only way for a judge to see it's a recreation is by going under the dash then if points are to be deducted they should be minimal in my opinion because it's parsley a safety factor. Do you deduct for safety belts? They are way more noticeable than half of a switch that you have to go under the dash to see the incorrect half? Domenic This message was edited by thunder road on 4-5-18 @ 4:36 PM
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| kubes40 | -- 04-05-2018 @ 5:30 PM |
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How is a heater switch remotely related to safety? Are you implying that anything that can't be seen easily should be overlooked? If I see it and it is incorrect, there's a deduction. Period. Seat belts and turn signals are allowed on the concourse per the rules of the club. Just because a part is rare or expensive (usually the same part) does not mean a guy gets a "pass". Mike "Kube" Kubarth This message was edited by kubes40 on 4-6-18 @ 6:40 AM
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| thunder road | -- 04-05-2018 @ 5:50 PM |
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Rare and expensive is not as bad as non existent. Just like the other fellow who could not get his clock fixed ,it would be great if places or people were still around that could rebuild these switches. Dose anyone out their know of anybody that can take these switches apart so new resistors could be installed? If so that would add a lot more good available switches to use, or to market. Domenic This message was edited by thunder road on 4-5-18 @ 6:17 PM
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| kubes40 | -- 04-06-2018 @ 6:41 AM |
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"non existent" is not an excuse for a "pass" on the concourse either. ANYTHING can be made at a cost. The concourse rules are fairly simple... the car is to be restored to the condition it was when it left the factory. Can't find that elusive part? Too expensive? Oh well... Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| TomO | -- 04-06-2018 @ 6:45 AM |
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The resister on the 1939 or 1940 heater switch is usually OK. Most switches fail due to dirty or worn contacts. With a little care, anyone can disassemble the switch and clean the contacts to make it serviceable. If the contacts are dirty or the motor needs repair, the resister will get too hot and fail. Domenic, the heater switches are still out there. I saw a 1939 heater complete with switch on E-Bay last fall. There was a 1940 heater with the correct switch at a swap meet last fall also. Last Spring there was a 1941 heater switch with the mounting bracket at a Wisconsin swap meet. If you want to talk unobtainable, try to find correct plastic for the dash board of a 40's Mercury or a lower radiator hose for a 1941 Mercury. A 40 Ford is a piece of cake to restore with original and good reproduction parts compared to any of the Mercurys of the 40s. I don't see how a heater switch is a safety factor. If it is burning up, you can turn it off, or disconnect it or remove it and still drive the car safely. The place to plead your case is before the Judging Standards Committee. 1940 Ford windup clocks are available in restored to parts clocks, you just have to look for them. I haven't been to Hershey for a long time, but you could probably find a heater switch and a clock there. Turlock, CA is another meet where hard to find parts show up. Mike, I respect your opinion and the position that you take on originality, my views lean more to have a vehicle that will operate dependably and look correct. If I were judging a 1940 today, I would not deduct for incorrect spark plugs, because they correct ones for a 1940 are only available in a worn out condition and would not let the car run reliably. There are probably other items that I would let pass, depending upon the general condition of the vehicle. Those opinions are different from the Judging Standards, so that is another reason that I do not volunteer to judge anymore. If I were running the Club, I would reinstate the requirement that all cars on the Concourse complete a tour to show that they are fully operational. I have seen cars pushed from their trailer onto the Concourse and receive Dearborn Awards. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 4-6-18 @ 7:16 AM
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| kubes40 | -- 04-06-2018 @ 7:39 AM |
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Tom, With respect, I must disagree with you in regard to plugs. Correct plugs do still become available now and then. A set of NOS sold just last week on eBay. I was unfortunately the second highest bidder at just under $400. I probably should have gone higher but was only looking to add another set to my stock. And, regardless if the plugs should become 100% unavailable... that simply means a person can't achieve a perfect score - all other things being "perfect". By your take on this, as more and more parts become unavailable and the cars do not receive a deduction, we will have a set of cars that are NOT properly restored yet still receive (in theory) perfect scores. There are classes for touring cars... By the way, correct two rib H10 plugs are VERY available directly from Champion. I was in talks with the company a few years ago about this. I am 100% against the lowering of standards just so more folks can "win". There is NOTHING in life that makes us equal. Plus, how can a guy feel good about "winning" when he knows full well his vehicle is not correct? Seems akin to cheating. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| thunder road | -- 04-06-2018 @ 11:53 AM |
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Mike dose the club have a guide to show how many point's come off for different things? The way that the AACA works I believe is every car start's out with 500 point's and then each car get's deduction's for incorrect item's and condition. At first a car must compete in the junior class, if it scores at or above a certain number," 500" being a perfect score it receives a junior. At this point it cannot compete in the junior class anymore, but must move up to the senior class and if it manages to win a senior award ,then it can finally try and win a grand national award. The car is scored on it's own merit , This way the car is not competing against other car's. How much is the half of the heater switch which is under the dash deducted , compared to an interior with a firewall cover made of fiber glass? Domenic This message was edited by thunder road on 4-6-18 @ 4:17 PM
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| TomO | -- 04-06-2018 @ 1:57 PM |
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Domenic, Click on National Club Information and then Forms on the siedbar. You will find the Judging Standards and Judging Forms there. Mike, I do understand your position and I would agree that a museum car should have all of the correct pieces, but a car on the Concourse should be able to perform as good as it looks and I would give more weight to performance than looks, because that is what the original buyer did. I guess that I don't shop E-Bay often enough. I have not seen a set at a swap meet since 2003 Dearborn, and they were well used and suitable for display only. I don't see how a guy can feel good about winning when he has to push his car onto the Concourse. Tom
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| kubes40 | -- 04-06-2018 @ 4:08 PM |
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Tom, As always, I not only appreciate your advice and opinion, but I respect you as well. I don't always agree but the respect does not ebb. Perhaps you and I are not comparing apples to apples. We, I thought, were not discussing museum cars but rather, concourse cars. My restorations are as "perfect" as I am able to achieve with all the correct parts. These cars can be driven along side any other car, any day of the week. There is no trade off for correct "appearance" and proper operation. I insist of myself to have BOTH. Within the judging standards created by our club, in order to avoid a deduction, one must have both the proper parts and they must operate properly. While I understand your concern over club growth, it remains my belief that there is room for everyone as the rules currently allow. If your car (as an example) is super, super nice, but has the wrong plugs, you can choose to enter it on the concourse and have it point judged and get hit with an eight point deduction. OR, you can place it in the touring class. I don't understand how that may discourage young folks from participating in our club. If this club continues to hand out points "for free" (think electric fuel pumps), I for one, and no doubt others, will abandon the club. At that time, the club will be little more than a typical Wednesday night at the local drive in. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I just can't see fairness to "changing the rules" so everyone can feel good about "winning". I've said it before, if a person can't win fair and square, he can't win. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| thunder road | -- 04-06-2018 @ 4:54 PM |
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Healthy discussion's are what bring's out the best. Now I know that having the wrong spark plug's is worth an 8 point deduction. I am going to follow Tom's advice and look up the club's judging standard's . Forgive me for not knowing them. I have never been to an Early Ford's v-8 club national show. I have been to 30 consecutive AACA shows at Hershey and have seen plenty of car's winning a Junior or a senior award. But I have never been to a Grand National AACA show, and here is where the car must be perfect to win. I believe that keeping the standard's as correct as possible as to the way the car left the factory is the only way to go. This is what makes it so special. This is why Corvette shows like a Blooming gold are so strict in their standard's and continue to be popular. Domenic
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| kubes40 | -- 04-07-2018 @ 5:36 AM |
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Tom offered great advice in regard to familiarizing yourself with the rules. I prefer the V8 Club Concourse to the AACA. Why? The AACA does not take in to account correctness. If the car is restored beautifully, it scores very well. On the other hand, the V8 Club takes in to account (per judging standards) both correctness and the quality of the restoration. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| thunder road | -- 04-07-2018 @ 7:38 AM |
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Mike being a judge must be an on going learning curve. The early straight axel Corvettes used Asphalt paint, to paint the frames. This Asphalt paint can easily be wiped off with gas, thinner etc.. Can you imagine taking a car down to a clean frame and then painting it with Asphalt paint instead of epoxy primer and then PPG urethane? Well you will receive point deductions unless it has the Asphalt paint on the frame. If the Corvette's outer body finish is not Lacquer paint expect more deductions. If it's too straight or dose not have some orange peel in the finish expect more deductions. Over restoration's is also a very touchy subject. Hershey recently started two new judging classes; Original car's and a driven class so more people can show their car's. Domenic This message was edited by thunder road on 4-7-18 @ 7:41 AM
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