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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / new drums old hubs

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Discussion Topic: new drums old hubs -- page: 1 2 3

Mr_Corvair

03-19-2015 @ 6:00 PM

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My 46 has the hubs mounted to the outside of the drum.The drums need to be replaced since they can't be turned anymore. Accordingly I purchased 51A-1107 studs,51A-1125 drums, a hub bolt removal tool,
and a swedging tool. The hub bolt removal tool is A1107T and the swedging tool is A1109T. The tool numbers are Mac's. I started to drill out a stud with the hub bolt removal tool. The tool would make a hole larger than the original swedge so I stopped cutting before I cut into the hub. Whats wrong? What is the procedure? Who has done this successfully? Help!!

len47merc

03-21-2015 @ 9:25 AM

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Search for a discussion on this forum (General Ford Discussion) initiated by flathead48 on 2/11/15 entitled 'front drum' and you will find replies that should answer your questions.

Steve

mrtexas

03-21-2015 @ 11:23 AM

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ick - do you have the older style hub/drum where the outer hub flange with the lug bolts in it is inside the drum? If so, and the original bolts are still in the hub/drum 'assembly', the bolts will have been swaged on the outside of the drum to hold the drum securely to the hub (the 'bulge' may be subtle but it will be there if original). In this case the simplest and safest solution is to take a side angle grinder (or equivalent cutting method) and cut the bolts flush with the old drum, remove the drum then press the balance of the bolt out of the hub. CAUTION - if you try to press the swaged bolts out of both parts without first cutting off the swaged/bulged portion you very likely may crack your hub and then of course you are up the proverbial creek. If you want to stay original you will need to obtain new bolts designed for swaging and place your new drums on the hub with the new bolts already pressed in then find a machine shop that can swag the bolts. Most are simply purchasing the newer-style drums and bolts that only require the bolts to be pressed into the hub and then the drum can be slid on and off easily whenever you need to work on the brakes, this also without having to remove the hub. Your call on which way you want to go.

If you have the style hub and drum with the hub flange on the outside of the drum and the lug bolts pressed through from the back of the drum through the hub flange, then again these bolts should be cut off with a side angle grinder or equivalent cutting method and then pressed out. Again also, if you do not remove the swaged/bulged area first you very likely may crack your hub. For this style I am not aware of any other option other than placing your new drum on the hub and pressing in the new lug bolts, then having the bolts swaged by a professional shop with the appropriate swaging tools/presses to get the job done correctly on such a big bolt. I have no personal experience with this style but have been advised by an owner of a vehicle with this style they had problems when they simply reassembled the parts without swaging the bolts (for this style only). Btw - I was told he ground off the head of the bolts on the inside of the drum and then pressed the bolts through the hub from the backside to the front, this to prevent marring and/or damage to the outside of the hub flange from trying to cut the bolt off from the outside.

Steve

Mr_Corvair

03-21-2015 @ 7:01 PM

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Thanks for the replies. The post and repost above do not address my situation. Is the tool I bought, the new drums I purchased and the original hubs I have compatible? If so what is the procedure. I can't be the first person faced with this dilemma. Please advise.

len47merc

03-21-2015 @ 7:13 PM

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The second paragraph which speaks directly to your orientation, and in particular the last sentence of the second paragraph, should address your concern but perhaps I am wrong. Grinding the heads off of the bolts from the inside of the drums and then pressing the bolts out through the drum and hub should eliminate both the problem of drilling out the studs and any associated potential hub damage from the drilling. After disassembly you should be able to use the parts and tools you have referenced to complete your repair/restoration properly.

Steve

This message was edited by len47merc on 3-21-15 @ 7:36 PM

Mr_Corvair

03-22-2015 @ 9:20 AM

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Thanks Steve. I don't mean to beat a horse to death. Maybe I'm missing something. The special cutter that I bought from Mac's I thought had a purpose. Is it used? If not when is it used? My drums are new with a 4" hole.My old hubs are on the old drums. If I cut the head off of the stud inside the drum I have done nothing to the swedge inside the hub. Will pressing the swedge part of the stud out of the hub without relieving it have the potential to damage the hub?
I don't want to damage my hubs. They are in good condition. Thanks in advance.

len47merc

03-22-2015 @ 11:54 AM

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Mr_Corvair - I have never personally used the A1107T tool that you have referenced nor have I ever found the need; however, I did look at the tool on Mac's website and found it is only listed for 1926 & 1927 Model T applications. The same is true for the swedging tool - perhaps these are typos/errors on their part (?). I have never seen a lug bolt removal cutting tool that increased the size of the lug holes in a hub. My experience with your orientation has been to grind off the end of the lug bolt on the inside of the brake drum and press out through the drum and hub, ensuring the outside edge of the hub flange is properly supported around the perimeter of the lug bolt shaft. Then using the swedging tool as specified in the instructions on Mac's website for your tool insert the new lugs through the new drum and the old hub and press accordingly.

You could reduce the pressure necessary to press out the bolts by drilling a pilot hole (and then possibly another larger) through the center of a ground off &/or cut-off bolt but I have yet to find that necessary

Perhaps a pic of the outside of the hub and drum, as well as another of the inside of the drum with the lug heads evident will help me/us better understand your concern. Apologies for sounding like a broken record here.

Check in to the application chart for your tools and confirm they are appropriate for your model. If the cutting tool increases the size of the hole in your hub I'd have to conclude it is not correct for your '46.

Btw - I have a '47 Merc with the opposite orientation - hub flange on the inside of the drum. I cut off the bolts with a side-angle grinder flush with the old drums (which were being discarded) and the bolts pressed out easily with no damage to the hubs - significant care was taken to support the back side of the hub flange as closely and securely as possible around each lug bolt on the press. Then using a swedging tool inserted the bolts and swedged/pressed them back together.

Steve

This message was edited by len47merc on 3-22-15 @ 12:48 PM

Mr_Corvair

03-22-2015 @ 5:52 PM

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Steve--Thank you again. I confirmed what you said about the A1107T hub bolt tool. However on page 6 of the new V8 catalog it is shown for 32-48 swedge removal. Also shown is the A1109T swedging tool also
shown for 32-48. It is also in the earlier catalog but I don't know the page number since I tossed it when I got my new one. However I ordered from the older catalog. From everything you've said and from everything I have observed I can only conclude that what you are saying is correct and I'm out $140. Please look in the catalog you have in the wheel parts and confirm what we now both assume is correct. Mel

len47merc

03-22-2015 @ 7:27 PM

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Mel, unfortunately I am not going to be much help on the Macs hard copy catalog review as I do not have any from this source. Perhaps others can weigh in here that have Macs catalogs in their reference library.

Steve

TomO

03-23-2015 @ 8:36 AM

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Mel,

There were 2 different style studs used in the drums, one has a completely round head and the other has a flat side on the head.

The diameter of the swedged section of the stud with the flat side is .56" and the other type it is .62".

I believe that Mac's hole saw is a 5/8" inner diameter and would work with the .62" stud. Just drill enough to clean up most of the swedged area, about 1/64"-1/32" into the hub. You should then be able to press out the studs.

Tom

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