| rogbell | -- 01-24-2016 @ 11:51 AM |
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In reference to my previous post regarding a wiring problem I've double checked the routing and connections for the wiring on my '36 but the problem with the taillight and brake light still exists. I've pulled off the light switch to see if the contact plate was not aligned properly but cannot see how it could be. Isn't there only one way that the bakelite contact plate can be placed into the lower cup of the switch? Is it possible that the rotating contact assembly could be bad? If I'm missing something please let me know.
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| MG | -- 01-24-2016 @ 12:18 PM |
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rogbell > are the wiring connections at the 'contact plate' soldered or are they just slipped on? I suspect a wiring error at the contact plate. Verify the correct color coded wires are connected to the correct contacts on the plate....
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| rogbell | -- 01-24-2016 @ 1:07 PM |
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The connections are not soldered, they are slip on connections.. According to the drawing that came with the wiring harness the wires are connected correctly. There was a suggestion that I should switch the taillight and brake light wiring. It would be easy to do with the slip on connectors if this would work.
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| TomO | -- 01-24-2016 @ 1:19 PM |
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You could do a continuity check using the diagram from Vanpelts sales. http://vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_electrical-pics/Flathead_Electrical_wiring1936.jpg With the lights off, there should be continuity between the yellow with red tracer wire and the green wire. There should not be continuity between any other wires. Tom
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| rogbell | -- 01-24-2016 @ 4:23 PM |
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Tom I'm not sure what you mean with the lights off? I don't know where to check the continuity other than as follows. Did you mean to check on the bakelite contact plate? If so, this is what I did. I disconnected the battery, removed the contact plate from the housing and checked for continuity between the yellow with red tracer and green wire. There was continuity, but, there was also continuity between the yellow/red and all other wires attached to the plate. Also between the green and all other wires on the plate. Not sure if this is a problem and if so, how to correct. Roger
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| TomO | -- 01-25-2016 @ 7:58 AM |
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Roger, What tool are you using for your continuity check? With the plate out of the car, you should not have continuity between the yellow with red tracer and any other wire except the green wire. The switch is used to make contact with all other lighting wire. Look at the wiring diagram and you should see what I mean, if not come back and ask questions. Tom
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| rogbell | -- 01-25-2016 @ 9:03 AM |
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Tom, I'm using a multimeter. I've tried a different multimeter just in case the first one was defective and got the same results, continuity between yellow/red and green as well as between all the other wires. Doesn't make sense as the bakelite plate insulates against current flow. A faulty wire harness? I hope not as I don't want to re-wire again. Roger
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| TomO | -- 01-26-2016 @ 7:01 AM |
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Try using a test light. Some multi-meters will give false readings by reading through the bulb filaments. You will need to connect your battery in order to use the test light, so make sure that the contact plate cannot touch the frame or any other grounding source. Tom
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| rogbell | -- 01-26-2016 @ 11:09 AM |
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Tom, I used the test light, connected the battery, insulated the contact plate, and had the following results. The light did not come on between red/yellow and green, But it did between red/yellow and all other wires. Should it be this way? Still don't know why the tail light is on when light switch is in off position but no other position. Also, brake light does not work, new brake light switch. Not sure what action closes brake light circuit. Is there something that pushes the piston in the switch? Thanks, Roger
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| trjford8 | -- 01-26-2016 @ 5:46 PM |
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You should have a hot at the yellow red and the green which goes to the stop lights. the stop lights are "hot" all the time at the stop light switch. If you don't have fire at the green terminal the brake lights will not come on when the pedal pulls the switch. Double check your diagram that came with the harness and make sure it is for the 36 and not a later car. If you have the 32-37 Service Bulletin book there is a 36 diagram in the book. Compare it to the one that came with the harness. From your description it sounds like there may be something wrong with the harness. It would be rare but it could happen.
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| rogbell | -- 01-27-2016 @ 2:32 PM |
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I compared the wiring on the diagram that came with the contact switch to the wiring diagram in the 1935-36 Ford Book and found one small difference. The actual wiring and the diagram that came with it have the high beam and low beam wires switched. I doubt that this would be the reason why the tail light is on when the light switch is off but at no other time?
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| TomO | -- 01-28-2016 @ 9:52 AM |
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If you look at the wiring schematic for the 36 Ford, you will see that the yellow/red wire and the green wire are hot all the time. The other wires are only hot when the switch is turned. You may have the yellow/red wire in the wrong position. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that the wiring started from the wrong side if the plate. I don't have the diagram from the book or the one provided with the wiring,so I cannot give you an idea of how to correctly orient the plate to check the wiring. If there is only one slot cut in the side of the plate, the black wire should line up with the slot and going clockwise from the wiring side you should have the green, then the yellow/red and follow the diagram for the rest of the wires. If this does not help, post a photo of the wiring side of the plate and the wiring diagram in the book. It will take 2 posts to do this. Tom
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| rogbell | -- 01-28-2016 @ 4:29 PM |
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Tom, Here is the wiring schematic. The actual wiring is the same as shown except that the wires for high beam and low beam are switched. Also note that it follows your description except that it goes counter-clockwise.
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| TomO | -- 01-29-2016 @ 7:05 AM |
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Looking at the wiring schematic on Van Pelts site, I believe that the drawing shows the contact side of the plate, not the wiring side. If you exchange your wires so that they match the contact side, I believe that you will solve your problem. Exchange the yellow and green wires with the black and the blue/black. You can see this on Dennis Carpenter's website http://dennis-carpenter.com/headlight-%26-taillight-wiring/p/40-11647-a/ Tom
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| rdofloor | -- 01-29-2016 @ 10:09 AM |
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hope you get you problem fix as I know what you are going through as I had a oil leak problem with my 36. After trying and trying different things I finly figured out what was wrong, a hole in the intake manifold heat raiser burned through and blowing oil out the rear seal. good luck Roger Oliver
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| rogbell | -- 01-29-2016 @ 11:59 AM |
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Tom, Switched the wires as you suggested and still got the same problem. The taillight still comes on when the switch is off. But not at any other time, not when the head lights are on. The headlights work as they should, parking light works, horn works. Now have another issue, the "c" clip that holds the spring, and the part that rotates the contacts all came out of the end of the steering column. I was able to insert the switch into the steering box without the clip but am afraid the horn button and shaft are not secure. Roger
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| TomO | -- 01-29-2016 @ 1:29 PM |
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Roger, I have exhausted all of my guesses. I would have to be onsite in order to do more. My last suggestion is to disconnect the wires at the lights and try another continuity check or do a voltage check to see what is hot in each position. I hope some one else like John Mason, who has a car from that period, will chip in. Tom
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| rogbell | -- 01-29-2016 @ 6:57 PM |
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Thanks to you and everyone else who offered suggestions. At this point what is happening doesn't even appear to be physically or logically possible. I'm going to pull the current harness out and try a new one. If that doesn't work, I'll just have to live with no brake or tail lights. Whomever owns the car after me can deal with it.
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| 40 Coupe | -- 01-30-2016 @ 5:08 AM |
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When you use your test light connect one side (clip) to the chassis ground and use the other side to probe the wire terminals. This will tell you which wire is energized. When you connect between two wires it tells you one wire is energized and the other is ground but not which one. You want the Y/R wire AND the G wire to both be energized. although the wires may be on separate terminals the terminals (3) are all common. so there should be IN ADDITION a third terminal adjacent to the Y/R & G wire terminals that is also energized.
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| engine | -- 01-30-2016 @ 8:29 AM |
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I don't know if this would apply.If there is a crack on the Bakelite could there be a short as in a distributor cap?
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| rdofloor | -- 01-30-2016 @ 9:42 AM |
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Roger make sure every one is talking of which side of the disk it is wire side or terminal side. you may look at the light bulbs and make sure you don't have a short there you can un plug them from the wireing harness there check to see if this helps. which I could be thee to help as I had a simple problem like this and could not find it. Roger Oliver
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| rogbell | -- 01-30-2016 @ 6:54 PM |
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Roger, Did you have the same problem and, if so, how did you resolve it? Roger
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| rdofloor | -- 01-31-2016 @ 3:01 PM |
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No mine was in the oil leak out the rear main seal, I finely found it was a burn out through the intake manifold. Who would have thought, I pulled the pan off several times. Hope you do not have to pull the wiring harness out. like I said check that there is not a short in the tail light bulbs by pulling them out,check the plug connectors. if that was not the problem un plug every thing from the start of the harness and check, then start plugging the connectors in one a time from the front to back and checking every time you plug one in. I can not think that it is in the harness wires. Check the switch by passing it and checking. Then un plug the switch and check if that fixes it, the switch should break the connunity on my 36 it mounts by the brake lever. hoping this helps Roger where are you from I'm from Des Moines Iowa area.
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| rogbell | -- 01-31-2016 @ 6:58 PM |
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I'm in Sourthern California, in Temecula.
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| rdofloor | -- 02-01-2016 @ 1:45 PM |
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My car is a 36 woodie. I was out to wavecrest last fall. in Encinita. Proble go this year.
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| rdofloor | -- 02-01-2016 @ 2:53 PM |
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any luck in fixing the problem
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| rogbell | -- 02-02-2016 @ 6:50 PM |
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Roger, Still working on it. So far it looks like I'll have to replace the chassis harness. Roger
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