| MikeRhodes | -- 12-27-2012 @ 4:49 AM |
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I have a 34 Ford Roadster (Timmis Ford) with a late model (1950? V8). It has no temperature warning system and I'd like to add one. Santa gave me two temp sensors (from MACs), one fore each engine head. I'd like to get a gauge that'll work for this 6 volt system (though my car has been converted to 12 volt). Does anyone have a suggestion on how I should best proceed? Does one use a single gauge that merges (averages?) the two sensor readings or should one have two discrete gauges? Naturally, I'd like to give the overall look a somewhat authentic (antique) style.
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| TomO | -- 12-27-2012 @ 7:01 AM |
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The single terminal sending unit varies its out put with temperature changes, the dual terminal sending unit is a switch that opens when the temperature of the coolant is near boiling temperature. These sending units are designed to work with the Ford version of the King Seeley gauges. These were used from 1940-1955 with 6 volts. The 12 volt version came into use in 1956. Macs has a package that includes a 12 volt sending unit with a 12 volt gauge, which may be a better solution than usung an earlier gauge and a voltage reducer. http://macsautoparts.com/search.asp?sb=0&ls=y&camid=F50&year=1955&make=Ford&ss=temperature+sending+unit&x=15&y=8 Tom
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| rotorwrench | -- 12-27-2012 @ 7:05 AM |
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The 8BA engines used the King Sealy temp sender/switch system for all years 1948 thru 53 for USA production. The right side cylinder head was where the actual sender was located and the left side head used a more simple temerature sensitive switch that is set to open with a temperature as usually stamped on the switch body. This way they could be connected in series. The indicators were all designed to fit the different year model and style of dash clusters of the time so I don't know of any that use a separate gauge with bezel. The idicators always give a fully hot reading until power is supplied to the system with all connections made between sender/switch and ignition on power terminal. You can use an indicator from any of the FoMoCo vehicles designed to use the King Sealy sender/switch system but you will either need a constant voltage regulator or a runtz voltage control device to drop the voltage on the battery side of the indicator for the system to function correctly with 12-volts.
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| supereal | -- 12-27-2012 @ 8:56 AM |
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The single terminal sender has a heater winding inside to provide a reference to the bimetal points. Thus, match the sensor to the voltage to avoid damage. The resistance type voltage reducers are not regulated. There is a voltage dropper Ford used primarily in Mustangs to provide stable voltage for gauges. If I was adding a temp gauge, I'd opt for one of the Stewart-Warner mechanical type. While the flathead engine is actually two four cylinder blocks merged, the coolant is combined in the radiator, so only one sensor is necessary.
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| MikeRhodes | -- 12-27-2012 @ 9:59 AM |
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Thanks to each of you, TomO, rotowrench and supernal. I am both impressed and grateful for your prompt reply. The advice provided from each of your is generally consistent and sound. Thanks. Here's how I'm leaning.... I think I'll go with simplicity, that is, no voltage reduction/regulation, only one sender, and a paired sender and gauge. I think I'll look on the web and see what I can find. Supereal's suggestion for a simple mechanical Stewart-Warner type is attractive. Yet now, since I'll look around a bit, I thought I could find a dual gauge that includes oil pressure too. In this way, I might use only one 2 1/16" gauge location to report both. I'd like to keep the dash trim and uncluttered but fear driving any distance without knowing water temp and oil pressure.
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| MikeRhodes | -- 12-27-2012 @ 10:04 AM |
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... I meant to add that, should I proceed as indicated, I'll probably return the two sending units back to Mac's (not until I fully finish my 'discovery').
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| MG | -- 12-27-2012 @ 11:11 AM |
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Mike, I had the same concern as you - "driving any distance without knowing water temp and oil pressure" - this, in my '34. I resolved the problem by installing a 'Smith's Dual Gauge' as seen in the attached photo. I installed it in a 2 inch gauge cup and and strapped it to the steering column. It's a mechanical gauge - both water and oil - very accurate and a piece of cake to install on my stock '34 engine. I too, was concerned about maintaining an "uncluttered" look. It almost looks as though it belongs....... This message was edited by MG on 12-27-12 @ 11:13 AM
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| MikeRhodes | -- 12-27-2012 @ 11:25 AM |
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MG, Perfect, Thanks! I'll run down the Smith's Dual gauge. I have a hole already in my dash where the previous owner placed a 2 1/16" fuel gauge. I'll use that place for the dual Water Temp/Oil pressure gauge. (The secondary fuel gauge does not work, it was to replace the hydrostatic fuel gauge, that I want to fix). In other words, I have two fuel gauges neither of which function.
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| MG | -- 12-27-2012 @ 11:30 AM |
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Too bad about the 'hole' in your dash. I haven't had a working fuel gauge (in my '34) for the past 20+ years and have never ran out of gas....... This message was edited by MG on 12-27-12 @ 11:32 AM
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| trjford8 | -- 12-27-2012 @ 6:25 PM |
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The mechanical gauges are the most accurate and don't require a sending unit. I have installed gauges in the right side kick panel and it avoids putting extra holes in the dash. You can see the gauges from the driver's seat.
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| MikeRhodes | -- 12-28-2012 @ 1:12 AM |
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MG - I carry a 1 gallon container of gas in the rumble seat. Yes, unfortunately, I have run out of gas in the past. Usually I check the gas level with a small tree branch that I has been granted a position of high importance in my garage. trjford8 - I like that idea about using the right side kick panel. I'd like to put a tach eventually somewhere -- that'd be a pretty good place. BTW, I ordered a Smith dual temp and oil pressure gauge with a cream (the Brits call it 'magnolia') facing. I find it ironic that I end up using the same Smith dual gauge I have had on both my MGA and MGB car years and years ago. Thank you all for the many terrific suggestions.
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| TomO | -- 12-28-2012 @ 7:51 AM |
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Mike, I would like you to stop carrying a bomb (gallon can of gas) in your car. If you have an accident, that can of gas can ignite and cause serious damage to you and your passengers. You can use the miles driven to determine when you are low on gas. If you have a stock tank, you can drive more than 100 miles on a fill up, so record our mileage when you fill up and then again when you have driven about 100 miles. Tom
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| MikeRhodes | -- 12-28-2012 @ 8:24 AM |
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Tom - sound advice, thanks. .... my odometer doesn't work either (though the speedometer does). .. as you can see the car needs some attention. When I'm up under the dash to install the temp/oil pressure gauge I intend to lift out the speedometer to fix the odometer. I expect a few broken teeth in the odometer gear ... who knows, I'll see. Thanks again.
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| TomO | -- 12-29-2012 @ 8:16 AM |
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Another alternative is time driven. Take a guess on how many miles you drive in a given time and when you think you have driven about 100 miles,fill up. 2 or 3 hours would be a good starting point. Just get rid of the bomb. Tom
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| woodiewagon46 | -- 12-29-2012 @ 9:30 AM |
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Mike, As a retired firefighter I am going to ask you PLEASE stop driving around with a gallon of gas in your trunk. Anything such as a small spark, not to mention getting rear ended can cause a huge fire, you have no idea how much fire and explosive force a gallon of gas has!!!!!
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| MikeRhodes | -- 12-30-2012 @ 12:48 AM |
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OK, you guys have been exceptionally helpful and straight-up. I'll take the gas can out. Thanks Woodiewagon46 and TomO.
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| DEAN333 | -- 12-30-2012 @ 6:40 AM |
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Mike, where did you order the gauge with the cream face? Thanks and Happy New Year. I have a '36 Deluxe Touring Fordoor. TIM CARLIG
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| MikeRhodes | -- 12-30-2012 @ 8:29 AM |
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Tim - at Minisport.com, a UK site. At that site, search on "Smiths Dual Gauge" 3. Smiths Dual Oil Pressure/Water Temperature Gauge - Magnolia face with Chrome Ring (Smiths Gauges with Magnolia Face) only £92.08
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| MG | -- 03-26-2013 @ 11:31 AM |
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MikeRhodes, Have you purchased and installed your SMITHS Dual Gauge? Can you post a picture of the gauge installed?
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| drkbp | -- 03-27-2013 @ 10:18 AM |
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Mike, If you have the sender and dash unit for the '34 fuel gauge, that is an easy one to fix but harder to find. Temp is hard also. As others have said, I would use the mechanical oil and temp. The oil, amp and speedometer can be had on ebay about any time. Ken in Texas
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| Henryat1140 | -- 03-27-2013 @ 7:48 PM |
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With the Smiths dual gauge setup, what do you use for an oil pressure sender? I can see the water temp bulb, but the pictures don't show any kind of sender for the oil pressure. Thanks
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| MikeRhodes | -- 03-27-2013 @ 9:32 PM |
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I have yet to install it but the 'sending unit' in this case is simply a 1/8 inch diameter flex copper (or plastic) tubing connection to the oil filter housing that has a small pipe thread connection point.
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