| MG | -- 05-06-2011 @ 3:34 PM |
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.....that in 1953, Ford did not install hardened valve seats in the 8BA block? And, to compensate for this, the valves were disigned to rotate as they moved up and down? I suspect this would make the '53's 8BA block and valves more susceptible to wear due to the lack of lead in today's fuels.
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| supereal | -- 05-06-2011 @ 5:35 PM |
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General Motors used valve rotators in the 40's but, to my knowledge, Ford did not. Their value is debatable, in any case. As a matter of course, we install hardened seats in all the flatheads we rebuild. This is usually necessary because the old seats won't accept new machining because they have been ground several times. We haven't noted any problems with valve seats with the new gas, in spite of the predictions.
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| jasteiner | -- 05-06-2011 @ 7:21 PM |
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In 1953 ford used non adjustable lifter? I beleive. The valves were not mushrum base, and did not use rotators, and did not have hard seats-for sure! They did have repalaceable valve guides. This combination with todays fuels would still run several thousand miles with proper valve adjustment and a proper seat and valve grind, approx 40,000 miles. Seat width should be 1/16" or less prefered! Jack
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| MG | -- 05-06-2011 @ 11:38 PM |
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Would it be a waste of money then to have hardened seats installed in a block without them?
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| 37 Coupe | -- 05-07-2011 @ 6:56 AM |
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Ford did use a rotating valve in 1953 at least in the 8RT 1953 F-100 I owned. The valve assembly is completely different than any other,springs are different length,different keeper assy etc. I suppose this had to do with the elimination of hardened valve seats but I always thought the another purpose was to eliminate sticking valve stems,strange it took 21 years to do this and used one year.
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| supereal | -- 05-07-2011 @ 1:49 PM |
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Ford did use rotating valves in the 215 CI overhead valve six cylinder engine, but I can't find any mention of rotating valves in the eight cylinder 239 CI engine used in the pickups in any of my Ford truck shop manuals. If your truck had them, they may have been an aftermarket type.
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| MG | -- 05-07-2011 @ 2:47 PM |
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I just did some googleing and went to the Q&A posts at this site - http://www.motorcityspeedequipment.com/qa.asp Q: 2 Piece valve retainers- I have an 8BA flathead with the 2 piece valve retainer setup. What is its purpose? 3/13/2006 A: This setup was used for 2 years. It allows the valves to rotate which indicates that Ford was concerned about valve and/or seat wear. We have seen these become more popular on a lot of other engines after the switch to unleaded fuel during the 70's. You can keep them or switch to the one piece retainer, we have not seen any difference between the two setups.
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| TomO | -- 05-08-2011 @ 9:15 AM |
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Ford did indeed use the rotators in the 239 cu in engine in 52 and 53. The engine with the straight valves had sticking problems and the rotators were used to fix the problem in 52. To my knowledge, Ford used replaceable hardened seats in all of the flatheads. The P/N was 40-6057. MG if you are going to rebuild your engine, installing new seats is a good idea, but I would not tear down a running engine just to install valve seats. Tom
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| MG | -- 05-08-2011 @ 9:43 AM |
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I posted my question on Mac Van Pelt's website and got the following response: "Mike, Yes. From 1950 thru 53 they incorporated the rotating valve assemblies. You can swap the early 8BA style valve assembly for the rotating type but hardly any of the individual parts interchange. Regards, Mac VanPelt VANPELT SALES LLC" This message was edited by MG on 5-8-11 @ 10:20 AM
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| supereal | -- 05-08-2011 @ 10:40 AM |
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I stand corrected. I did find, in the 1953 truck shop manual that "rotatable valves are used for both intake and exhaust valves". The manual also called this type "occasional", and gave instructions on setting valve clearance by grinding the cap that fits over the stem of the valve, rather than the stem itself. Interestingly, the OHV 279 and 317 engines that year used rotators only on the intake valves, according to the manual. Valve problems were not a big thing in those engines, although the tendency to drop the push rods was. We haven't encountered rotators on the 8BA's we rebuilt. We do install stainless valves and hard seats.
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| MG | -- 05-08-2011 @ 11:24 AM |
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And this from Van Pelt's website: "In general, the latter year flatheads were commonly referred to as the "8BA" type for Ford and "8CM" for Mercury. The truck version was identified as an "8RT". Later 1952 and '53 Fords and Mercurys were known as "EAB" and "EAC" respectively. These markings are generally cast into the cylinder heads. The truck versions often had different oil pans to accommodate the different suspensions, and some truck V8's were factory "relieved". The EAB's and EAC's did not have the hardened valve seat inserts like the earlier engines." - My '53 has 'EAB' cast into it's heads and my concern is the integrity of the block being used as the valve seat as opposed to hardened inserts - this, with today's unleaded gasoline. I was just curious to know if Ford introduced these rotating valves to compensate for the lack of hardened seats or was it to cure a sticky valve problem, or both? This message was edited by MG on 5-8-11 @ 11:48 AM
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| supereal | -- 05-08-2011 @ 6:08 PM |
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Sticky valves were not rare in the days of leaded gas, but rotators didn't seem to help much. The advent of oil with both detergents and dispersants did more to prevent that problem. We install hardened seats because most engines have had their cast seats ground several times over the years, leaving insufficient material for a correct and adequate valve seal. It was predicted that unleaded gas would cause seat erosion, but we haven't seen evidence of that. Once a block is set up in the machine, installing good seats is not a big deal. Given the cost of a quality rebuild, it is a very good idea, in any case.
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