| 35gal | -- 04-16-2011 @ 5:53 PM |
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I had my 1936 driveshaft modified by cutting off the existing 10 spline female coupling and welding a new 6 spline coupling. I put in new 3:54 gears. Now, with the new modification, when I drive the car, it drives smoothly till I get around 45 mph and then there is a slight vibration and a little faster and it goes away. Am I correct in thinking that if the coupling was not welded in round with the shaft centerline, that there would be a vibration regardless of the speed I go. It has been so long since I drove the car before the modification that I do not remember if the vibration was there or not prior to installing the new 6 spline coupling.
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| ford38v8 | -- 04-16-2011 @ 6:05 PM |
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35gal, Never having had an unbalanced driveshaft, I can only guess at the cause, but you can certainly inquire of the shop that did the work whether your crank had been balanced or not. If your crank is solid, you may have damaged the center bearing in the removal/replacement. No such worry if it is hollow. Another possible cause of your vibration is the condition of the tires. Since your car is a '36, you may not have had the wheels properly balanced due to the wide 5 bolt pattern. And even if they had been balanced, the long term storage may have had an effect on them. Alan
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| supereal | -- 04-16-2011 @ 6:07 PM |
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It it likely you have a "periodic" vibration caused by an out of line driveshaft. Any will cause a vibration to come and go as the shaft resonates. Anytime a driveshaft is altered or welded, it must be checked with a dial indicator to be sure it is true. We did one last year for a customer with the same problem. The place that had worked on the shaft had done two for him, and neither was correct. We do them in a long bed lathe and both check for straightness and balance. Just sticking an adaptor on a shaft and welding it usually doesn't work. I suspect you are right in your suspicion.
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| kubes40 | -- 04-16-2011 @ 6:30 PM |
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Super is right on with this (as usual). I might ad that driveshaft issues (poor universal joints, out of balance shafts, bent / out of 'true' shafts) have a tendency to show their worst at approximately 35 to 45 MPH.
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| 35gal | -- 04-16-2011 @ 8:11 PM |
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I don't think anyone could of done a better job then this guy. I took it to a drive shaft shop and stay with the guy that worked on it. It took him about 4 hours. He had a long bed lathe. He center the shaft up in the lathe with a mick on the front and rear. Bored out the old 10 spline and press in the new 10 spline. Mick it and then made 4 spot welds equally spaced on the diameter of the spline and then finished off by welding all around.
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| supereal | -- 04-17-2011 @ 10:17 AM |
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From your description, it sounds as if the process was right. It may be that the rear spline adapter was not aligned with the rest of the shaft. We use a piece of an old pinion spline to chuck the adapter, and a steady rest for the shaft, and check the finished results with a dial indicator. It only takes a few thousanths misalignment to cause vibration. We spin the modified shafts up in the lathe to be sure they don't whip. This message was edited by supereal on 4-17-11 @ 10:18 AM
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-19-2011 @ 9:31 AM |
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try balancing the wheels before you remove the driveshaft,or have them balanced. you could also remove the rear wheels, start the car up, make sure is stable on jack stands,or blocks so it will not come off,,,, go though the gears, get it up to where the vibration should be, and if the vibration is still there without the wheels. if it is still there,, I would locate a solid drive shaft and tube, and replace the whole assembley. being it would be hard to repair what has been done, there should be some driveshafts and tubes available, this is what I did on my 37, when I installed the 354-1 ratio. I also had the hollow driveshaft, and saw the adapter, and said no way,welding,,, will I go though this, hope this helps. hope you have good luck, 37RAGTOPMAN
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| MOXIE | -- 04-21-2011 @ 7:23 PM |
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I plan on modifying my 35 hollow driveshaft and was wondering about the solid drive shaft. I did not know they had solid driveshafts for 35/36. Could you give more detail about what type of shaft you use and what was modified about it 37RAGTOPMAN.
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| supereal | -- 04-21-2011 @ 7:38 PM |
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The solid shaft requires a torque tube with a center bearing. Most problems with a shaft adapted for a six spline pinion are caused by the adapter, which has the splines out of line with the outer part. Even though the adapter is welded carefully to the shaft, it wobbles. That is why we mount the adapter on a spine in the lathe and machine it to be true before welding. Driveshaft work is exacting, and requires special attention to avoid vibration.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-22-2011 @ 6:00 AM |
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Moxie you will have to find a driveshaft tube with the grease fitting on it , close to the center, this should have the solid shaft, it might be from a 37 or 38 you have to measure the length, I have some solid axles that came out a 39-40 MERCURY, these have the longer 6 spline adapter,[ these made up the difference from FORD to MERCURY ] but do not have the correct shorter size tubes to go with them, it is a whole lot easier,to go this way, I was not too impressed with the idea, of a weak link in my drive system, you will have to check out a few flea markets, hope this helps 37 RAGTOPMAN,,,, hope this helps.
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| TomO | -- 04-22-2011 @ 7:31 AM |
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37RAGTOPMAN, I have never seen a drive shaft for a 39 or 40 Mercury that did not have the pinion gear pressed on the shaft. All of the parts catalogs list the drive shaft sleeve only for the 41-48 Mercury. If you have a longer 10 spline sleeve, it is an after-market unit. Tom
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-25-2011 @ 9:07 AM |
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TOMO yes the pinion is one piece that has a short 6 spline shaft and the coupling is what attaches to the drive shaft, this is on the SIX SPLINE,not the 10 spline, the longer coupling is what makes the difference between the FORD and MERCURY drive shafts in length, atleast 1939-1940 MERCURYS, I bought some parts from a man that restored a 40 conv,and noticed the longer coupling, compared to the shorter FORD coupling, hope this clears this up 37RAGTOPMAN
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| TomO | -- 04-25-2011 @ 10:50 AM |
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I think that you misunderstood my post. Ford did not supply the drive-shaft or the pinion for the Mercury as a separate part, like they did for Ford in 1939 and 1940 and Mercury from 41-48. The pinion is pressed directly on the 4 inch longer drive-shaft and was sold only with a matching ring gear. There is NO sleeve on the Mercury drive shaft in 1939 and 1940. A 4 inch longer sleeve would have to be an after market item, not a genuine Ford part. Tom
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| MOXIE | -- 04-25-2011 @ 11:05 AM |
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Just sticking an adaptor on a shaft and welding it usually doesn't work. In talking to Mike, basically that is all he does. That is chuck the shaft up making certain with a mick it is true and round, bore out the old insert and press in the new and weld. Mike said he does not balance because the drive shaft does not need it, which I agreed
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| supereal | -- 04-25-2011 @ 12:59 PM |
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We don't balance it, as such, but we do run it up in the lathe to check for any wobble. If we find any, we then correct the problem. As mentioned earlier, the primary cause of altered driveshaft vibration is the mismatch between the inside and the outside of the adapter. Most are foreign made, which likely accounts for the discrepancy.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-25-2011 @ 1:12 PM |
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I guess then ,,that the guy Had some FORD parts mixed in,with the MERCURY parts. I know that the drive shaft housing was longer and it had a matching solid driveshaft with the longer 6 spline adapter,. and I thought it was for a MERCURY, but maybe a later 42-48 FORD, and not a MERCURY. so I assume the pinion drive shaft were on piece and were the entire length of the drive shaft housing,must be hard to work on, 37RAGTOPMAN This message was edited by 37RAGTOPMAN on 4-25-11 @ 2:17 PM
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-25-2011 @ 3:13 PM |
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According to the Green FORD book. part number 48-4605-A DRIVE SHAFT was hollow and used the 10 spline pinion, and was used in 1935,1936,1937,1938 yet another drive shaft was used with the part number 68-4605-B and had the solid drive shaft and was 6 spline and was used from 1937,1938 1939 1940,1941 so there is a overlap,though the years, also driveshaft 11-A 4605-B was 67 3/4 inch long and was used on FORDS 1941 to 1948 so in 1941 there was also 2 different lengths to the drive shaft,according to the GREEN BOOK, this is on page 134 in the FORD GREEN BOOK, one thing you can count on,Do not count on anything, Hope this helps. 37RAGTOPMAN
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| TomO | -- 04-26-2011 @ 9:11 AM |
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P/N 68-4605-B was used on 112" wheel base vehicles with torque tube in 38-41. 11A-4605-B was used on the 41-48 passenger cars (both Ford and Mercury). The Green book does not cover Mercury. There is a separate 1939-1948 Mercury Chassis Parts catalog that shows parts used on the Mercury. So, yes there were 2 lengths of drive shafts used in 1941. The Sedan Delivery, Panel Delivery and pickup with the 112" wheelbase used the shorter drive shaft and the passenger cars with the 114" and 116" wheelbase, used the longer drive shaft. Tom
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| SDExpoman | -- 04-27-2011 @ 10:15 AM |
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Since were on the topic of drive shafts. My '37 half ton has a cowbell ringing sound coming from the underside. I have tightened everything underneath, and yet the noise remains. Could this be related to a loose componant inside the torque tube? I'm getting tired of kids chasing me down in the neighborhood thinking I'm the ice cream man!
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| supereal | -- 04-27-2011 @ 10:38 AM |
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Does the sound come only when the truck is moving? Does it increase as speed goes up? It it louder at low speeds? This will help isolate the problem to the drive line, if that is the cause. It is unusual to have a noise from within the torque tube itself, as there is only a roller bearing in the middle with a solid drive shaft. The u-joint could be failing, or the u-joint cover could be loose. I'd also consider that a spring or other component has come loose and dropped into a brake drum. I assume you have checked the hubcaps to be sure that a rock or other debris has not found its way in.
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| SDExpoman | -- 04-27-2011 @ 3:30 PM |
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supereal, The sound is only there while driving at speeds of 10 mph or greater. No noise while in idle, or if I jump up and down on the truck itself. It makes no difference if the road is smooth or bumpy.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 04-27-2011 @ 4:40 PM |
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see if you have grease fitting on the driveshaft tube, if you do the center bearing could be bad letting the solid drive shaft whip around, this is just a guess, also make sure the rear drums are tight and not hitting the backing plate, looks like you will have to do a little checking and get back to us, hope this helps, 37RAGTOPMAN
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| SDExpoman | -- 04-27-2011 @ 4:53 PM |
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37RAGTOPMAN, Yes. There is a grease fitting on the tube. If the bearing has gone bad, is this a simple fix? Or more complex? I will check the drums first. I just replaced the entire brake system last month, all seemed tight at the time of re-assembly. Thanks for the suggestions.
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| supereal | -- 04-27-2011 @ 8:17 PM |
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I'd pull the drums and check for loose parts. Almost always, the last thing you do is the cause of a problem. It wouldn't hurt to grease the center bearing, anyway. If that is a problem, it is likely someone removed the grease fitting at some time, allowing the bearing to slide down the driveshaft. The grease fitting secures the bearing carrier in place.
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| TomO | -- 04-28-2011 @ 7:54 AM |
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SDExpoman, I would get the truck up on a frame contact lift, where the wheels hang free. Have someone in the car start the engine and put the truck in gear. Then have them slowly increase the RPMs until the noise appears. Use a long screwdriver as a stethoscope and try to isolate the noise. Mechanical noises will often sound like they are coming from an area that is quite distant from the source. Tom
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| SDExpoman | -- 04-29-2011 @ 6:30 AM |
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Update on noise. I took the truck to the brake shop that turned my drums as they had the correct type lift. The mechanics went thru the undercarrige much like I did without resolve, until they spun the rear wheels. Then the noise was present. After removing the rear right drum, we found the emergency brake arm completely loose as the new retainer clip I had installed failed. Best news I heard all week, as I was not thrilled in the least to potentially have to tear apart the drive shaft assembly. Another note of interest is we also discovered the pads were not making full contact inside the drums (my fault), and they are correcting that today. Thanks to all for your input regarding this matter.
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| TomO | -- 04-29-2011 @ 7:05 AM |
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I am glad you found the source of the noise. It is always better to do some diagnosis before you start taking thing apart. Tom
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| SDExpoman | -- 04-29-2011 @ 7:21 AM |
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Roger that!
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