| choupie | -- 09-20-2010 @ 8:30 PM |
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The affected 1947 Ford model 59 engine (stamped D217 4-17) really hasn't run much to speak of since 1990. When draining the oil recently for the first time in years, the first teaspoon or so was anti-freeze green. Upon removing the heads to see what's what, the pictured crack between the intake valve and the #3 cylinder was identified. The intake valve wouldn't come out, so it had to be cut - which revealed two pins from the intake to the #3 cylinder (which happens to be the only one with a sleeve) as evidence of a previous repair job. Could this defect/repair be responsible for the coolant I found in the oil, or was it more likely due to something else (e.g., the other crack that exists between the water channel and head bolt between the #5 and #6 cylinders or an aged head gasket)?
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| choupie | -- 09-20-2010 @ 8:32 PM |
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Here's a picture of the previous repair pins.
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| choupie | -- 09-20-2010 @ 8:33 PM |
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Here's a picture of the second crack in the same engine. Is it worth the investment to fix, or would attempting to fix this engine be more at throwing good money after bad?
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| choupie | -- 09-20-2010 @ 8:39 PM |
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Another attempt at the crack picture. (As it turns out, this one didn't work either - but the crack on the surface of the block is visible in the repair picture.) This message was edited by choupie on 9-20-10 @ 8:42 PM
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| ford38v8 | -- 09-20-2010 @ 9:48 PM |
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Chouple, I think you might be done with this block. The stud/water hole crack isn't too significant, but the crack to the cylinder is. That's where your coolant is getting into the crankcase from. If it were a sandpit, a sleeve could work, but a sleeve can't be sealed against a crack properly. Remember, torqueing down the heads will distort the block, so you can bet that a crack in a cylinder will open up. Alan
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| TomO | -- 09-21-2010 @ 9:52 AM |
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The answer to your question about where the coolant in the oil came from would come from a block pressure check. There are many places that a block can be cracked and leak coolant, but cracks between a stud hole and the water jacket usually are not the cause. I have seen blocks with cracks like your repaired and hold up for many miles. I have also seen wet sleeves installed to repair cracks and holes in the cylinder walls with success. I had a 1953 Mercury engine repaired with a wet sleeve and drove it another 100,000 miles with no problems. It had a hole about 3/4" in diameter where the top of the rod went through after the piston broke. The success or failure of the repair depends more on the machinist doing the job right than the location of the crack. 59A blocks are still around and inexpensive, so I would weigh the cost of the repair and your confidence in the machinist with the cost of obtaining another block. If you opt for another block, insist on having it pressure tested and magnafluxed before any work other than cleaning is done on it. Tom
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| supereal | -- 09-21-2010 @ 10:45 AM |
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Couldn't agree more, Tom. When a crack or other problem is noted in the valve "pocket", almost always it happened when the engine was frozen at some time. The fact that a sleeve was installed underscores that assessment. Cracks in or around the water holes in the block head surface are not unusual. As long as the stud has plenty of sealer used when it is inserted, it shouldn't weep. Lots of the "factory rebuilt" engines years ago showed evidence of crack repairs, commonly in the valve area. Then, and now, a good dose of Barr's Leaks, or other good sealer is mandatory. The rebuilts were always sent out with sealer included.
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| choupie | -- 09-22-2010 @ 5:38 PM |
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What was the life expectancy of a successful crack repair to a crack such as the one between the intake and #3 cylinder (e.g., "If it held from the start it should be good indefinitely", or "Just because it was good yesterday means nothing to the future 'cause they are liable to fail at any time")? Also, is it possible to perform a block pressure check after the engine has been completely disassembled? (Side note: When I bought the car that this engine was in back in 1988, I also received the bill of sale that was given to the previous owner when he bought it ($50 for a 1934 Ford 5-window coupe dated 5/15/57). I still have this bill of sale. Because of the previous owner's unusual name, I was able to track him down using anywho.com. I just got off the phone with him - he's 80 now. He recalls with high regard the machine shop that did the repair back in 1973, and noted that the repair held fine throughout his next 15 years of ownership. Hence the above question regarding whether or not successful repairs are typically permanent or do they have a history of eventually letting go.)
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| supereal | -- 09-23-2010 @ 10:04 AM |
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The concern with block repair is that the now ancient cast iron has become fragile from both time and the constant temperature change which, in effect, anneals the material. It isn't unusual to have it crumble in places such as threaded holes, and areas at or near the valves. Even though we take great pains to secure and seal these repairs, thermal expansion can, and does, reopen some of them. A competent machine shop will be "up front" with you regarding this, and the prospects for the permanency of the work. The best predictor of whether a block is suitable is to boil it very clean and do a complete MagnaFlux test.
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| TomO | -- 09-23-2010 @ 12:29 PM |
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Yes, a pressure test can be made after the engine is disassembled. The special plates to do this are expensive and a machine shop is not likely to have them if they do not do a lot of flathead Ford V-8 work. Magnaflux will show all cracks in a block and a good machine shop will be able to tell you if the crack can be repaired. A properly repaired crack should not open again. Tom
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| supereal | -- 09-23-2010 @ 2:53 PM |
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This is what a properly done block repair looks like. If we suspect internal leaks, we apply a special silicone sealer to the water jacket. Most shops don't pressure test because special equipment is necessary to apply compression and combustion levels. Note that the deck has been machined after the pinning takes place.
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