| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-22-2020 @ 2:35 PM |
|
Hello, Am looking for some pointers/help. I attempted to take my all original 37 Fordor out for a spin. I went around the block fine but when i came back "up" the driveway (it has a mild slant) and kept it in second even though i was going slow, I depressed the clutch thinking i would down shift, then i changed my mind, kept it in second and accelerated a tad. The clutch shook a fair amount (as it usually does), lurched and came to an abrupt stop. It won't budge an inch. I cannot take it out of second. It appears to be locked up as tight as a drum. Not sure where to start looking. Easiest thing would be to remove the top shifter cover plate and see if anything is obviously wrong? I have never worked on the tranny, rear end or shifter case. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks, gregg
|
|
| cliftford | -- 08-22-2020 @ 4:34 PM |
|
From your description, I would remove the shift cover first and find out why it won't go out of 2nd.
|
|
| trjford8 | -- 08-22-2020 @ 4:41 PM |
|
Also push in your clutch pedal to relieve as much tension as possible on the main shaft when you pull the transmission top.
|
|
| woodiewagon46 | -- 08-22-2020 @ 5:02 PM |
|
Does it feel like the shifter has changed it's feel? You might have broken off the bottom ball. Also, you might have broken one of the shifter fork's. As others have suggested, pull the tower off and you will be able to see if it's broken right away.
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-22-2020 @ 7:11 PM |
|
Everyone's comments/advice are much appreciated. I will yank the shifter cover off in the morning. It looks like it simply unscrews. gregg
|
|
| alanwoodieman | -- 08-23-2020 @ 6:00 AM |
|
if it has a "load" on it or is still on the slanted driveway, put a set of block behind/around the wheels. I recently had the clutch come apart and one of the springs got stuck between the flywheel and the disc and the clutch would not release, ruined the flywheel and of course the clutch
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-23-2020 @ 7:21 AM |
|
Thanks Alan, I will. Today I plan to put the back tires on wheel dollies and pull it into the garage. gregg
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-23-2020 @ 10:30 AM |
|
The car still sits where it locked up in the driveway. Attached are some pics of the top of the tranny. I don't know what i am looking at, so will dig into it further. Meantime, if anyone can comment on the pics and if something looks out of whack. Thanks guys, gregg
|
|
| Sneezer | -- 08-23-2020 @ 10:57 AM |
|
In your 2nd photo there appears to be a part broken off in front of the 2nd gear from the front. Break is on the left side of the gear
|
|
| cliftford | -- 08-23-2020 @ 12:55 PM |
|
From what I'm seeing, it looks like trans is in 2nd,but he low -reverse gear is not centered. That would lock it up. Did the low reverse move when you pulled the top off?
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-23-2020 @ 1:42 PM |
|
It would make sense that it is in 2nd. That was the last shift I made and that was the shifter position. When i pulled the cover off, i took care to pull it slowly up vertically. Once it cleared the gears i flipped it over and laid it down. I didn't feel or see anything move during this process. The car is now in the garage where i can look at it closer and twiddle with it. I have no idea how everything works together, time to learn... gregg
|
|
| cliftford | -- 08-23-2020 @ 5:26 PM |
|
It looks like it is in 2nd and low at the same time. Pry the shift collars back to neutral and check your shifting forks and related machanism.
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-23-2020 @ 7:28 PM |
|
I started prying and tried to move the gears around. With a little bit of force I was able to move the low/reverse gear rearward. It moves pretty freely now. For the life of me, i can't budge the second gear rearward. I don't want to break anything. Any ideas? Thanks, gregg
|
|
| cliftford | -- 08-23-2020 @ 8:18 PM |
|
2nd gear should slide forward.
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-23-2020 @ 8:54 PM |
|
Thanks, i will give that a try in la manana. gregg
|
|
| MG | -- 08-23-2020 @ 9:38 PM |
|
See > http://vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_trans-pics/Flathead_Trans_1936-52-LD3spd.jpg Click on drawing to enlarge.... This message was edited by MG on 8-23-20 @ 9:39 PM
|
|
| woodiewagon46 | -- 08-24-2020 @ 6:24 AM |
|
Sneezer, are you talking about the "web" on the reverse idler gear casting. It does look like a part of the web has broken off. 1937, can you fish around under the gears and see what you can find?
|
|
| Sneezer | -- 08-24-2020 @ 6:51 AM |
|
Arrow shows what appears to be a broken part
|
|
| woodiewagon46 | -- 08-24-2020 @ 8:41 AM |
|
No, that's not the part I'm referring to. I think you see a reflection of the camera flash. The part I'm talking about is the reinforcing web on the reverse idler gear mount. You need someone with a '37 trans to check out their trans and see if yours is indeed broken off. Also lot's of chipped gear teeth. Why does your lube look like mud? This message was edited by woodiewagon46 on 8-24-20 @ 8:43 AM
|
|
| alanwoodieman | -- 08-24-2020 @ 9:51 AM |
|
my guess would be that the detent balls are worn along with the spring, looks like second gear is too far back on the hub, slide it forward and take another picture
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-24-2020 @ 11:01 AM |
|
I fished around in the muck with a magnetic screwdriver and didn't catch any pieces. Not to say that they are not there. The deepest part of the muck seems to be directly below the gear tray, where i can't get to. As to the color of the muck...i filled it with new fluid not too long ago and the car is not driven very much. Perhaps cuz i live in h*ll hole Tucson, AZ. Anyway, I moved the low/reverse gear to the rear (it slides very readily). Second gear won't budge. I tapped on it pretty good and no movement. In the attached pic you can see some definite teeth chipping. Good size chunks are missing. It smells like i will need to remove the tranny and have somebody go through it. I was reading about the removal process. The entire rear end will need to be moved backwards??? yuck Thanks, gregg
|
|
| cliftford | -- 08-24-2020 @ 12:11 PM |
|
Yes, pull the tranny go through it. The rear end will have to be moved backwards. Its not that hard if you have .proper equipment. If not, be safe and have someone else do it.
|
|
| woodiewagon46 | -- 08-24-2020 @ 1:07 PM |
|
When you pull the trans, that is the time to examine your clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing. You don't want to do that job twice.
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-24-2020 @ 2:50 PM |
|
Thanks all. Time to take care of business. I have the right equipment, but the motivation needs some improvement. gregg
|
|
| woodiewagon46 | -- 08-24-2020 @ 3:10 PM |
|
Looking at your last photo, I don't think that the casting is broken off after all. Have you tried moving the shift lever now that it's out of the car? If so you need to dig deeper.
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-24-2020 @ 5:52 PM |
|
I don't mean to be dense, but can you be more specific about the "shift lever". Not sure what i should pry on??? I did take a big screw driver and hammer to the second gear and tried moving it forward. No movement. Thanks, gregg
|
|
| cliftford | -- 08-24-2020 @ 8:45 PM |
|
I think that he is talking about the long rod you just removed. Put the base in a vice or bolt it down. You should be able to shift it into all gears smoothly
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 08-25-2020 @ 5:16 AM |
|
Yes the transmission was in 1 & 2 at the same time. It appeared the 2 & 3 syncro was over driven into 2. The inner hub of the syncro has to be able move on the main shaft about 3/16" back and forth between 1 & 2nd. If it does not move or sticks in the 1 position that could overdrive the syncro outer sleeve when shifted into 2nd. when overdriven the 6 syncro balls will lock up outer sleeve. It appears, from your last photo, you now have the syncro outer sleeve in the neutral position. IMO leave the transmission in place and rinse it out with K1 several times, with the drain plug removed. rebuild the shift top mechanism since there appears to also be a problem there. Make sure you can move the syncro hub back and forth with ease on the main shaft then refill with 90 to 140W gear lube and reassemble and try it. It is possible from the appearance of the oil the bearing may now be bad or going bad and the transmission needs rebuilding very soon so be aware of noise. When you drain the oil make sure there are no parts in the oil or any K1 used for cleaning. Mac VanPelt has a great book and sells all the springs and balls for the top shifter. He also does rebuilding. Good luck.
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-25-2020 @ 7:53 AM |
|
Guys, thanks again. I did notice the top shifter cover plate didn't seem to work as i thought it should. It looks easy enough to remove the screw and replace the balls and spring. Let me give it a whack. This is going to be a slow process. That's ok, i have my sedan delivery to cruise in... gregg
|
|
| engine | -- 08-26-2020 @ 9:55 AM |
|
I had to recently rebuild my transmission due to it being used for a TV show Fargo. I believe that whoever was driving it shifted from 2nd to 1st not knowing that you had to stop to do that. Putting the top on somehow the synchro was to far back and the truck would not move forward. I called Van Pelt and he said that the synchro has to move back and forth. I put it in the middle and reinstalled the tower and it worked fine. Hope you get it working ok.
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 08-27-2020 @ 2:01 PM |
|
Thanks, that is a good ending. Hope mine is that easy. It is unbearably hot here in Tucson (109) so no garage work for me for awhile. gregg
|
|
| woodiewagon46 | -- 09-03-2020 @ 5:36 PM |
|
The suspense is killing me, it's been a while, any progress?
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 09-03-2020 @ 8:58 PM |
|
Yeah, i hear you. No news to report. It is just too hot for me to go in the garage and pull the tranny. It is quite the process. Tomorrow we expect to break our record heat of 108. Yesterday i did go to a place called "The Old Ford Store" here in Tucson. The guy is willing to work on it but is not sure if he will be able to find replacement parts. I saw an Ebay add for $300 for a tranny, plus shipping. Will see... Bottom line, i will be going slow at this, but will keep everyone posted regarding underlying problem and solution. Thanks for your interest. gregg
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 09-04-2020 @ 4:56 AM |
|
Replacement parts are available through Mac VanPelt in OH or Third Gen Auto in TN. also Southside Obsolete in Minn. Check any one of these places on the web. If the shop is not sure they can get parts, forget them, since they do not have the experience needed, find another shop or person. Try the local EFV8 Club regional group.
|
|
| woodiewagon46 | -- 09-04-2020 @ 5:50 AM |
|
One piece of advice, do not purchase anything on line without checking it out thoroughly. You might be buying something worse than you have now.
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 09-04-2020 @ 7:22 AM |
|
That gives me some hope. Once i get the tranny out of the car, I will make an attempt to figure it out and repair it myself. Not much to lose... Might as well put my Covid time to good use. Thanks, gregg
|
|
| 40 Coupe | -- 09-05-2020 @ 5:12 AM |
|
Not sure if this has been mentioned in a previous post. Mac VanPelt has a very good book with Spec. for the transmission. If you want to do it yourself.
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 09-05-2020 @ 7:23 AM |
|
Thanks, I will definitely check it out. gregg
|
|
| 1934 Ford | -- 09-18-2020 @ 7:37 AM |
|
First pictures show a transmission with very little gear lube visible and the light brown color would suggest waterhas been in there for some time. Notice the clean edges of the gear teeth , with the rest of it rust colored. Did you drain the transmission before you took the top plate off? I suspect you will find parts of gear teeth in the sludge in the bottom of the transmission that probably caused your lockup. There are two ways to remove your transmission, search other threads for that discussion, I prefer dropping the rear end rather than pulling the engine because you can do that alone and don't need a engine lift. Van Pelt is the place to call for parts and he's very helpful. Sorry, I just noticed how old this thread was, I hope you are back on the road by now. 1934 Ford's since 1972 This message was edited by 1934 Ford on 9-18-20 @ 7:42 AM
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 09-18-2020 @ 3:28 PM |
|
Hello, I topped off the fluids several years ago when i bought the car. I didn't drain and refill with all new. Must admit the oil is low and mucky. I hunted around and couldn't find any broken pieces, not to say there aren't some still lurking. My plan is to move the rear end. I have it on a lift and just need to get my rear in gear. My latest excuse is grandkids. They are sooo needy! (as they should be) Thanks, gregg
|
|
| JM | -- 09-18-2020 @ 9:15 PM |
|
I would suggest draining as much of that mucky looking oil out of the transmission before attempting to remove it. You might also consider draining the oil thru cheese cloth or fine mesh screen to capture any small metallic pieces that come out in the oil. If you have a copy of Mac VanPelts book, it will guide you thru the procedure of taking the transmission completely apart, which will be a good learning experience for you. After it's apart, and all parts and pieces degreased, you can determine what parts are needed to do a rebuild. Mac's book will also guide you thru reassembly. Another consideration for you might be to replace all internals with '39-'48 gears that have the improved 2nd and 3rd gear synchronizers. This will make for a much better shifting transmission, IMO. John This message was edited by JM on 9-18-20 @ 9:21 PM
|
|
| 1937sedandelivery | -- 09-19-2020 @ 7:32 AM |
|
Hey John, Thanks for all the good info. I will definitely hit up Macs. I have been reluctant to tear into this. It seems quite daunting with all the gears and assembly/disassembly. gregg
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=14094 |