| mzahorik | -- 07-11-2020 @ 7:19 AM |
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I've been working on my 1937 humpback and got it to run pretty good. I have found that the short block is not 37, but most likely post war. The accessories, generator, carb, etal are from 37. Anyway, the engine will start easily and run well, (although I sure the engine is rather tired). But even a short ride to the gas station will warm the engine to the point where after the engine is stopped for a few minutes, it will not start again until it cools off. I can squirt gas or starting fluid in the carb and it will not start. I believe the engine is not over heating, the carburetor seems to be OK, good performance and the fuel pump has he correct vacuum and pressure. The carburetor also has a thick gasket between the carb flange and the intake manifold. Also the starter spins the engine at the same speed when hot as it does when cold. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks Mike
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| MG | -- 07-11-2020 @ 7:56 AM |
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I suspect a faulty coil or it could be a faulty condenser as well. I would replace the coil first.
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| mzahorik | -- 07-11-2020 @ 8:11 AM |
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Gee... that was one of the areas I spent a lot of time on. I sent my coil to Skip Haney and he 'rebuilt' it. The distributor was re done also, with new points and condenser and set properly. Mike
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| TomO | -- 07-11-2020 @ 8:34 AM |
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Mike, check the spark by holding a plug wire near a head bolt. When idling it should be a blue spark and jump at least 1/2" long. You can do this as soon as the temperature gauge is above cold. An orange or short spark is a sign of poor ignition. Skip's coils have a well earned reputation, so I suspect that the condenser is leaking and overheating the coil. Try a new condenser, but your coil may have been damaged by the condenser. Another cause of coil damage is if the dwell becomes too long or leaving the key on without the engine running. Read this topic for more help: https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=17&Topic=10805&keywords=fuel%20delivery Tom
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| mzahorik | -- 07-11-2020 @ 8:57 AM |
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Thanks, I'll give it a try. I have a test spark plug where the electrode is low in the insulator and no ground strap. That should have about a 1/2" gap and is constant. Where as my hand is not that steady. Is there a way I could use a standard canister coil temporarily to see if the coil is the problem? Mike
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| carcrazy | -- 07-11-2020 @ 10:24 AM |
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One way to verify if your hot restart problem is due to lack of spark, is to spray starter fluid into the air cleaner while cranking the engine. If it doesn't at least try to start, you have an ignition problem.
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| mzahorik | -- 07-11-2020 @ 4:39 PM |
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Boy.... am I disappointed. I had figured I was alright on the ignition. The spark is rather poor even when the engine is cold. I checked and the ballast resistor is OK. I get a little over 3 volts at the coil. But the spark will not jump 1/2", barely 1/8". So I'll have to dig into the ignition again. Thanks for the help Mike.
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| 51woodie | -- 07-11-2020 @ 7:08 PM |
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One thing to be aware of, is don't leave you ignition on if the engine is not running. It can/will damage the ignition component if the points are close during that time.
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| 37fordguy | -- 07-11-2020 @ 8:12 PM |
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Just had the same problem-fuel pump rod
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| carcrazy | -- 07-11-2020 @ 8:55 PM |
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Check all of the electrical connections in the ignition primary circuit to make sure they are good and tight. I once had a loose connection on the condenser which caused the ignition to fail.
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| 40 Coupe | -- 07-12-2020 @ 4:37 AM |
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What carburetor do you have? The original is a Stromberg 97 The 94 style is 39-48. a photo would be good. If you remove the carburetor does the intake manifold have a hole to the exhaust passage? If so only the Stromberg can be used unless you block the hole.
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| 39 Ken | -- 07-12-2020 @ 7:13 AM |
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If Skip Haney re-built your coil, you can bet it's not the coil giving you problems. One undeniable truth of the day is that the condensers made today are of questionable quality. The most consistently good ones I have found are from NAPA, made by Echlin. The IH-200 is what I'm using and they seem to be the most consistent in quality. Tubman over on the Ford Barn is making a "Big Brass" condenser with the correct resistance that will fit your '37 but it is a little pricey. However, pricey is good if you want quality and longevity. Ken
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| JayChicago | -- 07-12-2020 @ 9:18 AM |
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To those of you who posted suggestions regarding the fuel pump or carburetor: this is clearly a spark problem, not a fuel problem. Original post said " I can squirt gas or starting fluid in the carb and it will not start. " Later he said "the spark will not jump 1/2", barely 1/8". We all want to help. But I see too many reply postings that have not been thought thru. That doesn't help, may just confuse a person who is already scratching his head. May I suggest that before we jump on the keyboard, we all should take the time to re-read thru the thread a second time, giving us time to think about the problem a second time.
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| mzahorik | -- 07-12-2020 @ 11:02 AM |
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Well..... I had a little time this morning to do a little snooping. I checked the wiring, it was replaced about a year ago, and it is tight, complete and correct. The ballast resistor is good. My battery voltage is also good 6.3 volts. So I started with what I thought was easy. I removed the condenser and tested it. Turns out it is a little leaky and low on capacitance. I believe the correct capacitance is around 0.25 uF. I was measuring less than 0.15 uF. But, I think being leaky is the real problem. I also have a Model T which I have rebuilt the coils. One thing about these coils is the poor capacitors they had, but the new ones are great. So I removed the cap from the V8 and installed a Model T capacitor. The T cap has a little more capacitance, but it seems to work fine. With the motor cold, the engine started on the first crank, just as before. I ran the engine until warm, turned it off and waited 10 minutes. The engine temp went up 30 degrees, at least according to the dash gauge. This is where I have trouble. Normally the engine will not start until it cools, this time it started right up. So I re did the test and the engine started again when hot. Now I do not want to celebrate yet. Later when the shade comes around and is over the car, I want to try looking at the spark again. The capacitor was new last year. I bought it from Mac's. Thanks for the help Mike
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| mzahorik | -- 07-12-2020 @ 11:21 AM |
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And by the way, my car has a 97 carb that was rebuilt about 2 years ago. When the car is running I have no trouble with performance on the road. Also, my Model T capacitor measures about 0.45 uF and does not register at all on leakage. I had to try the car on the road. I taped up the temp capacitor so it would not get into trouble and drove around awhile. The engine did get a little warmer. With the engine off and after waiting 15 minutes, the dash temp gauge reading 180+, the engine started up. Maybe this is it. Still will try the spark test later tonight when it is not so bright out. Time will tell, thanks for the help. Mike
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| mzahorik | -- 07-12-2020 @ 12:59 PM |
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While I'm waiting for darkness to come, to do the spark test, I made the capacitor connection a little more semi-permenent. And here is a picture of my little treasure. Thanks for the help. Mike
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| mzahorik | -- 07-12-2020 @ 4:03 PM |
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It was dark enough to do the test and see a spark with my old eyes. The spark is definitely not 1/2", but it more than 1/4" and maybe 3/8". So it is definitely better. Did Ford have a ballast resistor bypass during starting? That might help a little more. Thanks again, Mike This message was edited by mzahorik on 7-12-20 @ 4:09 PM
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| TomO | -- 07-13-2020 @ 8:18 AM |
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Nice looking survivor, Mike. I would get a new condenser from NAPA and install it. You may not get the results that I specified with your set up. A 1/4" spark may be acceptable with a test plug. The different capacitance will also make a difference in spark intensity. You can use one of the plastic fuse holders to hold the wire or stick a small wooden dowel inside the plug connector to assist in holding the wire close to a head nut. You can buy a coil adapter for test purposes that will allow you to use a round coil, but their reliability is questionable of the long term. I made my own from a bad coil base back in the 1970's and still use it for test purposes. The problem is that the round coils have severe quality issues. I do carry a spare Skip rebuilt coil for emergencies. Tom
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| mzahorik | -- 07-13-2020 @ 12:37 PM |
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The external capacitor is just temporary. I wanted to see if it helped, although I may leave it on for a while, just to see if it really makes a difference over time. Are you recommending the Echlin IH-200? I may try it, just for an experiment. Not sure why the Model T capacitor is so much larger than the V8 cap. Maybe I should get a spare coil and have Skip work on it. Thanks for the help. The car is fun to drive again. Mike
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| TomO | -- 07-14-2020 @ 6:40 AM |
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Mike, I cannot recommend any electrical parts these days. The quality of all of them is questionable. I have used the condensers from NAPA in the past with no problems. I cannot say that about the ones provided by the vendors that supply the hobby. Driving the car with a condenser of the wrong value can cause the points to pit and then you will have to replace them. This could lead to more problems as the quality of replacement point is not as good as the ones that we used to get 30 years ago. Tom
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| 40 Coupe | -- 07-15-2020 @ 2:13 AM |
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NAPA FA49 condenser for the 37-41 Ford distributor.
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| mzahorik | -- 07-15-2020 @ 8:34 AM |
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Thanks. I'll give iy a try.
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| Robert/Texas | -- 07-17-2020 @ 4:33 AM |
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My ’37 humpback acts exactly in the way described in the original posting. Everything about the engine is the same except that I have no riser on the carburetor. I have done lots of things to no avail. I have found that when starting the car while warm is to be careful not to flood it. I crank the engine while barely touching the throttle and it always starts. When I try to start it the normal way it often floods. I realize that it shouldn’t be that way, but I have been living with it. I also have a ’34 Ford but it doesn’t behave this way.
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| TomO | -- 07-17-2020 @ 7:09 AM |
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Robert, it sounds like your carburetor is leaking fuel into the intake manifold. I would have it rebuilt. Tom
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| kubes40 | -- 07-17-2020 @ 8:08 AM |
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Joe Hunt Magnetos sells a perfect (USA) condenser for your car. It is 33mf, supposed to be the optimum for these ignitions. I've installed these in numerous cars and every one has shown a wonderful improvement in not only starting, but running. Mike "Kube" Kubarth
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| therunwaybehind | -- 07-17-2020 @ 9:09 AM |
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Don't mistake condensers (capacitors) installed on the generator to eliminate brush noise in the radio or resistors installed on the spark plugs (or resistor spark plugs) to eliminate ignition noise also in the radio as might be with police radios with the capacitor on (or in the) distributor to prevent erosion of the points by arcing. Monkey see, monkey do is not the operative phrase here.
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| kirkstad | -- 07-18-2020 @ 10:21 AM |
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I have a friend with a 36 2 door that would not start after the engine warmed up. I installed the Skip Haney rebuilt coil for my car I had Skip do a few years back. I kept the barrel coil with adapter on that has been working so well, but I intended to mount the original coil at some point. At the time I sent the coil to Skip,I asked about the condenser that I left mounted in the coil, he said if the condenser checks out OK he would leave mounted and he did,so hopefully you sent the condenser with the coil so he could check it out. My car was doing the same as his, engine would not start when warmed up. hope this helps. Frank
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