| MittieLee1935 | -- 01-08-2020 @ 7:27 PM |
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I recently purchased a 1935 Ford Deluxe that had been converted to 12v. The previous owner installed a 12v neg ground Ah Ugh Uh horn but I want to go back original. I ordered new 12 v neg high/low note horns and a 12 volt horn relay. Using the two wires (original wiring harness two wires that are in center) from the stock horn button on the steering wheel I was unable to figure out how to hook up the new horns. They only clicked and never blew. I decided to see if the original 6v horns would work and ran one of the wires from the bottom of the steering shaft to one horn terminal and a wire from the other horn terminal to the battery by way of the starter solenoid. The horn worked but of course was a little loud. When I connected the second horn on the right side it started to blow immediately. I haven't a clue what I did wrong. Being 6v horns, I am not using the horn relay switch as I understand only 12v horns need to use the relay. I guess I could get by with only one 6v horn on my 12v system, but I really would like to use the 12 v horns and the original horn button on the steering wheel. Mac's says to send back the non working 12v horns and they will replace them. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks This message was edited by MittieLee1935 on 1-8-20 @ 7:54 PM
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| supereal | -- 01-09-2020 @ 9:34 AM |
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The original horn circuit in your '35 was one side to the starter button, which provided ground to the horns, and the other horn wire which was connected to the battery at the starter switch. Thus, when the button was pushed, the horns operated. Your 12 volt horns need a horn relay, as horns require a high current. The original horn button wires should be connected to the relay coil. One side of the horns goes to ground, the other to one of the relay points. The other relay point is connected to the ungrounded side of the battery at a convenient point under the hood. When the horn button is pushed, the relay closes, furnishing power to the horns to blow. Most 6 volt cars don't have a horn relay until later years when horn rings came into use, and the relay eliminated the slight electrical shock when the ring or button was pushed. Some horn relays have an internal connection for grounding, and should be tested to determine which type you have. The relay should be rated for 12volt use.
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| MittieLee1935 | -- 01-09-2020 @ 1:10 PM |
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Thanks for responding to my problem. So to be clear, I have a 3 prong 12v horn relay with the prongs labeled, H B S. So I take both horn button wires and wire them together to attach to the S. Then attach to the B a wire to the hot battery connection on my starter solenoid and then on the driver's side horn the Positive terminal has a wire going to the H with the negative terminal grounded to the body of car. Then ground the other passenger side horn to the car body and connect the positive terminal on that horn to the positive terminal on the driver's side horn. Does this sound correct? Also what size wiring should I use? Is 12 gauge okay? This message was edited by MittieLee1935 on 1-9-20 @ 1:13 PM
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| supereal | -- 01-10-2020 @ 1:56 PM |
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H is horn. to be connected to both horns. B is battery, to be connected to a power source, and S is the switch (horn button). The two wires from the button old button are attached as follows: one wire to a ground, the other to the S terminal on the relay. The body of the horn relay should be grounded. The B terminal goes to a "hot' battery place, such as at the starter switch. The H pole on the relay goes to one of the terminals on each horn. The other on the terminal on the horns is to be grounded. I am assuming that the relay receives power from the B terminal internally, and when ground is furnished to the S button, the relay pulls. If not, the button will be furnished with power on one wire to be carried to the S terminal. Horn relays vary in this regard. Sorry to be so complicated for such a simple application. If you have any problems with this, leave a message.
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| MittieLee1935 | -- 01-11-2020 @ 11:16 AM |
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Thanks for all the information. As soon as the replacement horns come in from Ecklers, I will proceed with your suggestions.
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| MittieLee1935 | -- 01-28-2020 @ 2:37 PM |
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Well I just burnt up another $235.00 12v horn on my 1935 Ford. I had the original 6v horn hooked up and working without a horn relay. But since it was the consensus to run a horn relay I bought one. Of the two wires running off the spider to the horn button, I ran one to the S on the relay, a hot wire from my starter solenoid to the middle terminal which I guess is B as none of the terminals are marked and from the positive terminal on the horn to the H (far left) on the relay. I ran a ground wire from the negative terminal of the horn to the body of the car. The 6 volt horn blew until I decided the horn was crooked and loosened the mounting bolt and moved it around. Now I am blowing fuses (14 and counting) and the horn does not blow. If I hold it in my hands away from the car the horn will blow. I noticed that between the mounting bracket and the fender is a skinny rubber (make shift) washer. Does this have anything to do with the horn not working. I can also hold in my hand a $18.00 auto part store horn and it works just fine. Just doesn't look as pretty on the car as those wonderful 1935 Spartan Horns! This message was edited by MittieLee1935 on 1-28-20 @ 3:08 PM
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| MG | -- 01-28-2020 @ 4:11 PM |
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi1152.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp495%2Ftradeworks-int%2FTradeworksRan%2FRT_DH_12V_RT100%2520CHROME_04.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
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| MittieLee1935 | -- 01-28-2020 @ 4:56 PM |
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That is exactly how I wired up horns before I quit for the day! But not before I shorted out and burnt up both 12v Spartan horns. That left me original 6 v horn that sounded with me holding it but as soon aS I bolted it down quit and blew 25 Amp fuse. I loosened the bolt to move bracket over and that’s when my problems started. I saw a small piece of rubber under mounting bracket between fender and bracket. Does this horn need insulation between top of fender and brAcket? This message was edited by MittieLee1935 on 1-28-20 @ 5:00 PM
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 01-29-2020 @ 6:57 AM |
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12 VOLT HORN I would use jumper wires, to test the system before you wire it, use a 10 amp circuit breaker from the battery, the horns should work on a ground system, using a relay the horn button on the FORD, grounds the circuit so the horns blow, it has to work the same way, so you have wire it that way, to me it seems like when you install the horn, you are grounding the hot lead, causing the fuses to blow ,? did those horns come with a wiring diagram ? if you can post a photo of it, hope this helps 1937RAGTOPMAN WHY 12 VOLTS ?, my 37 with 6 volts and have no problems blowing the horns,with no relay
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| MittieLee1935 | -- 01-29-2020 @ 7:52 AM |
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I would have stayed with a 6v system but the previous owner completely removed all the original wiring harness and replaced with a 12v system and installed a aftermarket Ah Oug Ah horn. I wanted to use the original horns and got the left one to work without a relay by going from hot wire at starter solenoid to horn and applying ground to horn using one of the two wires from spider center from end of steering column. It worked great but of course was very loud so I bought the reproduction 12v neg Spartan horns. This is where my problems began. I’m using 14 gauge wiring and a 25 amp fuse. Yesterday I hooked up the drivers side horn going from positive terminal to horn relay (left terminal). I next went from - terminal on horn to body ground. Using center terminal on relay I went to starter solenoid with inline 25 amp fuse. Finally using the right connection on the horn relay I ran one of the wires from horn button (one I had on 6v horn ground) to the make the final connection. Before testing I noticed the horn was crooked so I loosened the bracket and noticed a small thin rubber gasket between the top of fender and bracket. When I tightened bracket bolt and pushed down on horn button on steering wheel the fuse blew. Does horn bracket need metal on metal ground or is gasket necessary. Right side horn bracket also has a gasket. Oh, the other horn wire while not hooked up when I was using 6v original horn I grounded to the frame. Last night I ordered 2 more 12v Spartan horns and at 550.00 a pair, I want to be positive about everything before I hook them up! $1000 just to use correct looking horns is crazy!!
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 01-29-2020 @ 8:03 AM |
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HI I went on BING and found this, auto horn wiring diagram with jd1912 relay this may help. check it out,,, I would rewire the car for 6volts, it not that hard with RHODE ISLAND WIRING, all soldered terminals ends,, I would not trust the other owners wiring, do not know what it looks like, is it neat and fused,? all you gauges work ? 12 volts can cause fires quickly, if not done correctly this is my 2 cents 1937RAGTOPMAN
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| TomO | -- 01-29-2020 @ 7:24 PM |
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You have a short circuit somewhere. Try to isolate by removing the wires from the horns and insulating them from ground. Replace the fuse and then press the button. If the fuse blows, the problem is either at the horn relay or the wires to the horn. If the fuse does not blow, the horn motor is shorted. If the fuse blows, remove the horn wires from the relay and repeat the test. If the fuse blows, the horn relay is bad. If the fuse does not blow, reconnect one of the horn wires to the relay and retest. If the fuse blows that wire is grounded. If the fuse does not blow, connect the other wire to the relay and repeat the test. If the fuse blows that wire is shorted to ground. If the fuse does not blow, connect one of the horns and repeat the test. The rubber gasket will isolate the mounting from ground, it was necessary on the original wiring because the horn ground was provided by the horn button. With the relay, the horn button only activates the relay and the relay now provides the hot side and your added ground wire at the horn provides the ground. Come back with the results or for more help. Tom
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| MittieLee1935 | -- 02-04-2020 @ 2:48 PM |
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I got my replacement Spartan 12v 1935 horns. Here is what I have done today. I bought some cheap new hi low note horns from the auto parts store. I bolted them to the original horn brackets. The two terminals on the horns are not labeled. One terminal on each horn I ran as a ground to the bolt under the fender that secures the horn bracket to the fender. The other terminal which I will call positive, I ran a 12 gauge wire to my horn relay left terminal (the 3 horn relay terminals are not labeled) relay mounted to the firewall by a Star washer and bolt. The center terminal on the relay is run to the hot side of my starter solenoid. The terminal on the right I’ll call switch, I hooked up to one of the horn button wires coming out from under the steering shaft. The other wire I taped off. I have installed a 25 amp fuse between the solenoid and horn relay. Both horns sound when the original horn button is pressed. Now I guess I am ready to replace the cheap horns with the expensive Spartan horns. I am a little worried as I shorted out a previous new Spartan horn and burnt up a second. I reordered more horns so I now have $1000 invested. Does it sound like I can proceed? I have 2 wires hooked up to relay terminal “H” on left (one from each horn positive). This message was edited by MittieLee1935 on 2-4-20 @ 2:54 PM
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| TomO | -- 02-04-2020 @ 9:35 PM |
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Before proceeding I would check the circuit for a short. Do you have an ohm meter? Tom
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| MittieLee1935 | -- 02-05-2020 @ 5:02 AM |
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No I don’t have a ohm meter but the two cheap horns are working normally.
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| JayChicago | -- 02-05-2020 @ 7:48 AM |
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I always wondered why your previous Spartan horns got ruined. The only thing that comes to mind is they can’t handle reverse polarity. So before installing them I would check that.
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| TomO | -- 02-05-2020 @ 10:04 AM |
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My concern is that you say you burned up 2 horns when they were mounted on the car. The horn motor is a simple electric coil magnet and should not burn or short out with the correct voltage applied. The horn motor vibrates the diaphragm to make the noise by using electric current in an electromagnet to move the armature and diaphragm. When the magnet is energized the contact points open and break the circuit to the magnet allowing the armature to return to the relaxed position. The current is present only a few thousands of a second each time the point close. The wiring on your car is not stock, so I wanted to check out if there is another reason for burning up the horns without activating the new horns. If you wired your horns with a hot wire going to one terminal and the grounding wire going to the other terminal, you MUST isolate the mounting bracket from ground by using a rubber gasket. You need an ohmmeter or a test light that will check continuity between the horn case and the body of the car. There should be NO continuity. Here is a link to a meter that has a good selection of ranges for cars. I cannot vouch for the quality of the meter as I have not purchased this make or model. The needle type meter is more useful in diagnosing old car problems as it is not as sensitive to stray voltage. https://www.amazon.com/Tekpower-TP7050-7-Function-20-Range-Multimeter/dp/B007IEFC8G/ref=sr_1_12?keywords=analog+multimeter&qid=1580918316&sr=8-12 Tom This message was edited by TomO on 2-5-20 @ 10:04 AM
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| MittieLee1935 | -- 02-05-2020 @ 10:30 AM |
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Thanks to everyone for their help in my horn project. I replaced the cheap horns with the Spartons and they WORKED! But in putting the dome cover back on the left horn the fuse blew again. Evidently one of the terminals must be making contact with the inside of the dome cover. I solved this by wrapping both terminals with electrical tape and that took care of the problem! Thanks again everyone!! This is a great site!!!
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