| william semerod | -- 04-16-2018 @ 12:42 AM |
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what is the best oil for my 1937 85hp motor do I need zink in the oil? This message was edited by william semerod on 4-16-18 @ 5:21 AM
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| sarahcecelia | -- 04-16-2018 @ 5:34 AM |
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ABSOLUTELY!! Zink used to be in oil in the old days to protect flat tappet cams, and the EPA took it out. Without it you'll wear that cam out in a very short time. I use Valvoline Racing Oil, 20-50- "With Zink." Regards, Steve Lee This message was edited by sarahcecelia on 4-16-18 @ 5:39 AM
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| 42merc | -- 04-16-2018 @ 6:50 AM |
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Here we go-AGAIN.
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| TomO | -- 04-16-2018 @ 7:02 AM |
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This subject has been discussed before. Search for Zinc and ZDDP. The consensus is that ZDDP is not necessary for our engines and that any good quality oil will lubricate our engines without excessive wear. Tom
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| DD931 | -- 04-16-2018 @ 7:51 AM |
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Does anyone know of an ACTUAL case where an engine wore unreasonably because of low or no zinc?
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| trjford8 | -- 04-16-2018 @ 1:56 PM |
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DD931, like you I've yet to see one. Not much difference than when we went to unleaded gas and everyone thought it might be the death of our flatheads. If people are worried you can still buy oil with zinc in it.
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| sarahcecelia | -- 04-16-2018 @ 6:16 PM |
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Yup!! I bought my Crestliner from a guy in Pennsylvania. While we were in the talking stage of the potential sale/purchase, he said, among other things, that the motor was completely rebuilt by a an old, and very reputible firm, and only had a few hundred miles on it. I only had it a week or so when I realized, that among other little things, it had a very odd noise that I couldn't figure out. Well I finally realized that I had to pull the motor to find out . I shipped it to Harold "Putt" Smith in Collegeville, Georgia. When It was torn down, Putt said the camshaft looked like it had been "run over with a belt sander," and asked me what kind of oil I was using in it. I told him It was the oil that was in when I bought it. (Apparently the guy I bought it from just put regular oil in it.) Putt said, When you get it,make sure you put an oil in it with zink in it before you start it. Mike of H&H Flatheads did another motor for me previously for my other '50, and I asked him what oil I should use. He said, " Valvoline20/50 racing oil with ZINK!" Zink was always in oil since I was a young guy, and lead was in gasoline, and both were "buffers" against damage. The EPA made them take them out. Mfgr's. got around them with the more modern cars, but not oil with zink for any flat tappet cams; nor leaded gas. That's why they are still available! My airplane and ALL gas engine airplanes, use : 100 LOW LEAD ! They are both "cushions;" lead helps prevent "knock," and zink is a "Cushion" between the cam and the "SOLID" lifters. So, Here we go again!! Regards, Steve Lee
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| sarahcecelia | -- 04-16-2018 @ 6:59 PM |
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Lead was an anti-knock agent, zink is a cushion for any motor with a flat tappet cam. Got hydraulic lifters? The oil in the lifter cushions it! People that think you don't need zink for flat tappet cams, are the same people tht ruin new cams because they didn't put "Cam lube" on the lobes when they built the motor. If you didn't need zink in oil, why did ALL the oil companies put zink in it for years, until the EPA took it out?? And why can you still buy it? Because the antique car people lobbyed for oil with zink it, and the Airplane Owners Association lobbyed for leaded gas., I know, I'm a pilot and have an airplane and I signed a petition for leaded gas, and oil with zink! If you didn't need lead in gas, why did the put in in all gas until the EPA banned it? They put those things in those products for a R E AS O N, and with airplanes leaded gas is a must,, and some old cars zink is needed.My airplane has a 180hp, four cylinder opposed, Lycoming in it, with a flat tappet cam, and I use Sh*ll aircraft oil-WITH ZINK in it! That engine was rebuilt, and cost over $18,000. If I ruin that cam, the Federal Aviation Authority would require a "tear down" and complete overhaul, costing about $25,000, and that's if it only need a cam!! A crankshaft is about $5,000! I don't want to die with my plane's cam as my Grave Stone!! Regards, Steve Lee
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| TomO | -- 04-17-2018 @ 7:50 AM |
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ZDDP was used sparingly until the overhead valve engines of the 1950's stressed the camshaft and caused excessive wear. Part of the wear was due to the change in manufacturing of the camshafts and the design of the camshafts. The Ford flathead camshafts were not affected by the lack of ZDDP in the oil. The chemistry of the oil has changed dramatically since the 1950s and the current anti-wear additive should provide adequate protection against wear in the low stress flathead engine. Here is a link to the history and physics of ZDDP in oil. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e2dc/da55f2a51bde3dabb2ef06543fc401d61ed4.pdf Also ZDDP has not been completely removed from motor oil, just the percentage has been reduced to extend the life of the catalytic converter. It was 1,200PPM and now is around 800PPM. Tom
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| trjford8 | -- 04-17-2018 @ 7:53 AM |
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I'm not a chemist, but I don't think lead in gas came along until World War II. Prior to that old Fords ran without leaded fuel.
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| kirkstad | -- 04-17-2018 @ 8:55 AM |
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My 36 engine still has the original bore, cam and valves,it's a little tired I'll admit,but at my age so am I.I have been using valvoline straight 40 and I add Marvel Mystery oil to my fuel to keep the valves and seats lubricated.Every winter I take a compression check and every other winter check valve clearances and after 16 years no noticeable change.Most of the failures I have seen are do to after market parts in rebuilt or so called rebuilt engines.I am on the forum a lot, asking questions and I always get great help. Still learning at 72 Frank
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| sarahcecelia | -- 04-17-2018 @ 6:47 PM |
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Here we go again??!! Don't believe me?? Google: "Why was zinc put in motor oil."Hmmm.....Seems the experts agree with me! How about that. Regards, Steve Lee
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| sarahcecelia | -- 04-17-2018 @ 6:50 PM |
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I think you may be right about that! It was added when compressions started to go up to prevent motor knock. Regards, Steve Lee
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| 42merc | -- 04-18-2018 @ 7:22 AM |
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Here we go again--I know what zinc is & I know what zinc does. You are talking apples & oranges. The man asked about a stock Ford V8 flathead, you're talking about aircraft & problems you had with a used engine with an unknown history. Any over the counter modern motor oil will satisfy the needs of any STOCK Ford flathead out in the wild. When valve spring pressure is increased over stock, maybe look at adding extra zinc.
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| fordmerc | -- 04-19-2018 @ 6:17 AM |
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Since we are on "AGAIN",any comments on multi-weight versus single weight oil?
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| TomO | -- 04-19-2018 @ 6:28 AM |
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Oil with viscosity improvers lubricates better than single viscosity oil. 10W30 oil lubricates like 10W oil when cold and like 30W oil when the oil is at operating temperatures. 30W oil is pretty stiff at cold temperatures and a good lube at operating temperatures. Tom
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| thunder road | -- 04-19-2018 @ 6:54 PM |
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Valvoline:VR 1 racing oil, and Joe gibbs hot rod oil both contain high zinc levels. The Valvaline VR1 contains 1200 ppm zinc content , and the calcium level is 0.210. The Joe gibbs hot rod oil contains 1300ppm of secondary zinc which is the most active, and the calcium level is 0.272. Both of these oils work the best in cars and trucks built before 1990 with flat tappet cams and lifter's because the zinc levels are high and the calcium levels are low.The calcium is the detergent in the oil, by Adding a bottle of ZDDP to a motor oil with high detergent is a waste of time because the detergent washes away the zinc from the cam and lifter's ect. Domenic
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| TonyM | -- 05-19-2018 @ 10:12 AM |
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Tom O. Hello. What weight oil do you use in your blue Mercury coupe? Thanks TonyM . . . 78-730B
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| TomO | -- 05-20-2018 @ 7:47 AM |
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Tony, I use 10W-30 oil in both of my cars. Are your traveling to Dearborn on Monday, june 11? If so, give me a call. Tom
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| TonyM | -- 05-20-2018 @ 12:58 PM |
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TomO. Will do. TonyM . . . 78-730B
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| BUCKAWHO | -- 05-21-2018 @ 2:29 PM |
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Just to be safe, I use alcohol-free gasoline and motor oil with zinc in both my older cars, a Ford and a Chevy. The Chevy also uses 112 octane gasoline. Remember the Sunoco 260 ?? BT
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| sarahcecelia | -- 05-22-2018 @ 1:38 PM |
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Duh, 20/50 Valvoline racing oil with zinc says on the right /top of the container: "Great For Pushrod and Flat TappetEngines." Guess the manufacturer is stupid and doesn't know as much ! Regards, Steve Lee
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