| 222444kelly | -- 05-15-2018 @ 2:17 AM |
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Car stored for a few months. Idles OK, fast stationary idle OK, Adequate power in first gear and low end of second gear. But with higher RPM in second gear and into third gear, significant power loss, bogs down, no pep. So, with preface that all electricity is magic; and I've never touched the from on the engine, coil, condenser, points area. I did check each plug wire spark to ground at idle. From sitting in driver seat, the left side of engine all six wires threw a nice intense blue 1/2" long spark to ground. The right side six plug wires had NO spark whatsoever. I did check tightness of wire terminals from the four condensers on top of coil, distributor area. Haven't put a tool anywhere near that dark, black mysterious area on the from of engine. What think you all?
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| TomO | -- 05-15-2018 @ 6:55 AM |
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It could be a bad ignition resister, broken wire to the coil, bad coil or points. The Zephyr has two coils in that big black lump that sits on top of the distributor. The voltage path to the coils is from the ignition switch to the ignition resister to the coil. Both coils need to have voltage at the input terminal, but they may be different values depending on if the points are closed. Tom
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| 222444kelly | -- 05-15-2018 @ 11:15 AM |
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thanks TomO for prompt reply. OK, so with engine running or not? do I put volt meter lead on right side condenser wire attachment nut (side that doesn't spark) which has two wires connected, one from top condenser and other from lead that comes out of wire loom metal tube? (does this wire loom lead go to ignition switch?, should it have 6 volts?) then ground other volt meter lead? what voltage should i have? Then, do I remove slotted screw at from of domelike black cover? and lift up? It appears that the condenser wire nuts and base screw to which the top condensers (R and L) are attached is part of this dome, correct? The R and L coil are below and is there way to check the coil health? if bad, where do you get this / these condensers? local auto parts store? the lower R and L condensers appear to be scr*w*d to a terminal with no lead wire. Never seen a condenser like that, are they available from parts store?
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| TomO | -- 05-16-2018 @ 7:14 AM |
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Can you please post a photo of the coil, so I can see the connections ? Tom
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| 222444kelly | -- 05-16-2018 @ 9:46 PM |
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Here is photo of coil and condensers taken from over the top of the radiator
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| 40 Coupe | -- 05-17-2018 @ 4:24 AM |
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Two condensers on the top (with orange paint) are for radio noise suppression, as a temporary measure disconnect both, where they connect to the red wires and see if this helps. When was the distributor last serviced? Has the ignition coil been rebuilt? Bubbas Hot Rod Shop does a very good service and Skip can rebuild the coil. Does the car run worse when hot and better when cool? Cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 are on the right side. All of these cylinders are fed high voltage from the same side of the rotor and from the same side of the ignition coil. After trying the above, you can swap both of the red wires going to the coils and if the problem moves to the other side of the engine then the problem is most likely on one of the ignition resistors. If the problem does not move then both resistors are OK and the problem is either distributor or coil. This message was edited by 40 Coupe on 5-17-18 @ 4:58 AM
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| TomO | -- 05-17-2018 @ 7:10 AM |
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If the trouble does not move when you swap the red wires, try cleaning the contact points with a piece of paper saturated with alcohol. The points may have built up some dirt from condensation over the winter. You may have to remove the distributor in order to clean the points. If you have a dwell meter, you can connect it to the terminal where the bottom condenser connects to the distributor and see if the points are opening and closing. Dwell should be around 44 degrees. The coils and distributor can be serviced by Skip Haney in Florida. http://www.fordcollector.com/coils.htm Tom
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| 222444kelly | -- 05-23-2018 @ 6:39 PM |
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thanks TomO and 40Coupe.... disconnected the condensers with orange paint (radio interference?) after taking voltage reading with engine not running but ignition switch on. Got 2.53 volt on coil terminal on right side feeding cylinder 2,4,6,8,10,12. With condenser disconnected got 6.30volts. Other coil ignition wire terminal feeding cylinder 1,3,5,7,9,11 with condenser connected got 5.30 volts, and with condenser disconnected got 6.31 volts. started engine and still had only odd number cylinders side with spark to plug. turned off engine and switched the red ignition wires coming from the ignition resistors?, started engine; LO and BEHOLD ! got good strong blue 1/2" long spark at every cylinder! Told you all at the beginning of this thread that electricity is magic.............. took her for a spin and no balking, lots of power through all gears and overdrive; guess that is what 12 cylinders are supposed to feel like. Thanks all for "fixing" this. But really, what happened? Is it just the last gasp before coils go belly up? were the radio condensers the problem, and if so where do I get new ones? I did throw off bail wire on side of distributor that was miss firing and opened the hemispherical cover about 1/4" to see that there was lots of scary stuff in there and promptly closed it. I therefore did not clean point contacts with alcohol as recommended. Need more encouragement to open that sucker up again! Also, wiring chart shows that there is an ignition resistor in the ignition circuit. Where is this exactly located. what does it look like? Could switching red ignition wires have effected this resistor? should I get a new one, and where is one found? while I'm on it, I see that there is a circuit breaker in wiring. Appears to be connected to dash instruments rather than in ignition circuit, correct? Where is this circuit breaker located? what does it look like? do I need to reset it occasionally? Thanks in advance to all of you V12'ers.
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| 40 Coupe | -- 05-24-2018 @ 5:20 AM |
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The voltage reading can confuse this, the reading will vary depending upon weather the distributor ignition points are closed (about 4V ) or open (6.5V) plus the condition of the points. If after disconnecting the radio condensers and moving the wires the car runs good it appears one of the wires may have had bad contact with the coil terminals or one of the wire terminals is not properly connected to the wire. There are two ignition resistors on your car. They may appear as one with a common terminal in the center. I am not familiar with LZ but for the Ford the resistor is under the dash mounted on the firewall above the steering column. They are covered with a metal cover with holes for ventilation (hot in operation). For the ford the lighting circuit breaker is mounted next to the resistors and the circuit breaker resets itself and only trips when there is a overload in the lighting circuit. I would suggest you find the resistors clean the resistor wire terminals and the wire lugs maybe with a brass wire brush, reconnect the nuts holding the wires on and make sure they are clean and snug. Also clean the wires and terminals on the ignition switch and both terminals on the coil, then take your voltage reading and see if you can get about 3.5 to 4.V at the coil terminals with the distributor points closed. You can put the two coil wires back to their original position Take before and after voltage readings. With the slightly higher voltage on the coil terminals you car should be good to go. After fixing this you may want to have the distributor cleaned and timed, since you will have solved the mystery of electricity and it will be time to hurdle new horizons. This message was edited by 40 Coupe on 5-24-18 @ 5:29 AM
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| TomO | -- 05-25-2018 @ 7:02 AM |
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Here is a photo of a 37 Zephyr resister block. The circuit breaker on the 39 LZ is different, but the resisters are the same. Your wiring may be different from what is shown on this photo, so don't try to match the wiring. Tom
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