| jyakel | -- 11-14-2014 @ 12:21 PM |
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Gentlemen, I have a 1949 Ford F-3 with an 8BA flat head V8. The whole truck is very stock, but I'm not sure it has thermostats in the heads as the engine never really heats up. (The previous owner may have removed the thermostats? Don't know.) The heater blows cold or tepid air, never really toasty warm air. (While doing other repairs I did take out the heater core and had it flushed and tested. It's fine.) So, my question is this: if I drain down the coolant and find no thermostats what temp thermostats should I install; 160 degree, 180 degree, or 195 degree. This is a stock truck, not a souped up hot rod. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
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| carcrazy | -- 11-14-2014 @ 12:52 PM |
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I'll answer your question with a question first. What part of the country do you live in? If you live where it gets cold you might want to run 180 degree thermostats especially if you want to drive in the winter. I live in a very moderate climate where I don't have to use antifreeze and prefer to use the 160 degree thermostats.
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| jyakel | -- 11-14-2014 @ 2:44 PM |
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I live in south central Kentucky where the winter temps will get down in the low 20's and summer temps will get into the 90's. So what do you thing, are the 180 degree thermostats my best choice?
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| ken ct. | -- 11-14-2014 @ 4:04 PM |
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John I don't care where someone lives BUT, 160 "s do not let the motor warm up enough to burn off the contaminants in the oil,i would never recommend 160's to anyone anywhere. OMO. ken ct.
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| 51f1 | -- 11-18-2014 @ 7:22 AM |
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Ford used 160 degree thermostats. There's no good reason to use anything else. They work great in my '51 F-1. Why would you want to use a hotter thermostat in an engine that wants to overheat anyway? Richard
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| jyakel | -- 11-24-2014 @ 9:09 AM |
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Ken ct. and 51 F-1, Boy, there are strong opinions and strong support for using 160* or 180* thermostats in an 8BA flathead. Nowhere in my Ford owners manual (small blue book) or the Ford repair manual (large red book) could I find what Ford specified as the correct temp thermostat to use. If you have a Ford source please share it with me. So this is what I did: I drained down the antifreeze and removed the thermostat housing on the engine head. I did the passenger side first. I found there was a thermostat in the head but the thermostat was broken in the 'open' position. Okay, so I removed the driver's side thermostat housing and found the same thing, a thermostat installed but broken in the open position. So I ordered two new 180* thermostats and gaskets from Dennis Carpenter and installed them. I refilled the cooling system with 50/50 Prestone. I fired up the truck and drove it 'lightly' around my fields just to watch the temp gauge, listen for any new noises, and to see if the heater would put out any heat. Here's what happened: the temp gauge moved quickly from cold to normal, then above normal, then all the way to hot and beyond. I got out, opened the hood, saw that antifreeze was coming out of the radiator overflow hose (probably lost maybe close to a 1/2 gallon of antifreeze), so I put my hand on the engine heads to see how hot they were (probably not a smart thing to do) but the heads were warm, not so hot I couldn't touch them. Then I felt the radiator hoses going from the heads to the radiator (mine are still the original metal pipes). they were ice cold! That told me the 180* thermostats hadn't opened yet, but the temp gauge was pegged beyond 'H'. I decided to drive a little more, again very slowly around my fields, and checked the engine again. This time the temp gauge had retreated to 1/2 way between normal and hot. The radiator hoses were now very warm, meaning the thermostats were open and coolant was flowing. The radiator overflow had stopped overflowing. And the heater was putting out nice hot air at it should. So, what should I do? All the while during this experiment the engine ran smooth as silk, no issues like is was overheating. I ordered one of those thermal Infrared temp guns today so I can accurately assess the temp of the engine as it is running. Any advice gentlemen will be greatly appreciated. John
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| TomO | -- 11-24-2014 @ 10:43 AM |
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It sounds like you had an air pocket in the cooling system. The air pocket caused a steam pocket that made your gauge show hot, but did not allow the coolant to reach the thermostats, so they could open. Now that your thermostats have opened and the coolant has circulated, the air pockets should be gone and your engine should run between 180-195 with no coolant loss. If you still have overheating problems, you should have your radiator cleaned. Ford recommended the 180 thermostats with permanent antifreeze and the 160 thermostats with the alcohol based antifreeze. My reference is the 1949-1951 Passenger car Shop Manual. Either one will work fine in your pickup as long as you frequently drive it long enough to reach operating temperature and for at least another 30 minutes. 10-20 minute drives will not burn off the sludge forming contaminants. Tom
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| jyakel | -- 11-24-2014 @ 12:47 PM |
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Tom O, You are the first person to explain the need (or difference) between the 160* and 180* thermostat in a flathead. Thank you! I run permanent antifreeze so I'll stick with the 180* thermostats I just installed. And, I bet you are right too regarding an air pocket (probably a big one) in my cooling system and it was staging it's self at the thermostats until they opened. Makes perfect sense to me. Later today I'm going to top off the antifreeze and test run the truck again and see what happens. Any advantage to drilling a 1/8" diameter hole in the thermostat plate? I've read in other threads that guys have done that to solve heating problems. What's you thought on doing that?
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| Big Red 51 | -- 11-24-2014 @ 1:55 PM |
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jyakel, The 52-53 Ford book specs also has a base stat that opens at 157-162 and is fully opened at 177-182. EAA 8575-A. I guess that is a 180. For permanent anti-freeze, it shows two; one at 177-182 EAA-8575-B opens and one at 167-173, EBR-8575-A. I ran 180's in my stock '51 F-1 with an 8BA with Prestone, 50/50 and never had a problem, summer or winter. Don
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| jyakel | -- 11-24-2014 @ 3:10 PM |
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Don, Thanks! let me ask, where does your temp gauge read when your truck is at running temperature? Does it read normal or 1/2 between normal and 'H' like mind did in my first test yesterday? John
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| Big Red 51 | -- 11-24-2014 @ 4:56 PM |
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It ran at normal and when I was in Concord couple years ago stuck in traffic at over 100 degrees, the needle never moved over one needle width. It was a cool running engine. Each gauge is different. Really need to put a mechanical gauge on it for correct temp. Don This message was edited by Big Red 51 on 11-24-14 @ 4:59 PM
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| jyakel | -- 11-25-2014 @ 6:17 AM |
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Don, Okay, thanks. All good info here. I didn't get to test my truck yesterday as planned as it gets dark at 4:30 - 5:00ish but I plan to test it again soon. I understand every truck/engine/gauge may act a little differently. One has to learn the characteristics of one's vehicle. Thanks Don, John
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| TomO | -- 11-25-2014 @ 7:19 AM |
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I like the idea of drilling an 1/8" hole in the thermostat and have it in my Lincoln. It gives a little flow when the thermostats stick shut and allows you to pull safely to the side of the road to allow the engine to cool down. The hole also relieves the air pocket problem. Tom
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| jyakel | -- 11-25-2014 @ 11:32 AM |
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Tom O, Thank you. I like the 1/8" hole in the thermostat idea too. Your good advice is well taken. All the best to you, John
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| satelite | -- 02-14-2015 @ 7:36 AM |
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I have a 53 pickup with a merc engine, EAB heads, electronic ignition and Reds headers. I have found that if I overfill the radiator, it just pushes the water out. So I fill to the bottom of the upper radiator tank. I also use a mix of polyproplene glycol and water instead of ethelyene glycol. Don in SC
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| TomO | -- 02-17-2015 @ 8:39 AM |
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Have you checked your radiator cap? Your cap should be a 4Lb pressure cap and allow you to fill the radiator to just below the filler opening. Tom
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| Ross F-1 | -- 02-28-2015 @ 4:03 PM |
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My '52 F-1's upper tank has a sheet metal "tang" about 1.5 inch below the filler opening, that is the "full" mark when cold. If you fill all the way it will blow at least 1/2 qt out. The cooling system holds 22 qts, and expands almost 5% to hot, which is about a quart. There's no need to drill holes in most thermostats. If you hold them up to the light and look at the disc, you'll see it has a wavy edge to provide the same function.
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| jyakel | -- 03-13-2015 @ 12:41 PM |
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Ross F-1, TomO, Satelite, Thanks for your input. I wondered what the function of the 1 1/2" tang was in the radiator tank. If the bottom of the tang is the 'cold' full mark then I am in good shape because that's where my coolant level settles to. Just to make sure I didn't have any more overflow issues I installed a make shift overflow tank (gallon milk jug) and it has never had any coolant in it. So I think I'm in good shape. Only thing is when my engine is up to running temperature the temp gauge settles in at 1/2 way between normal and hot. In other words the gauge is reading 3/4 of the way to hot, but it never moves higher. ?? Like others have said in earlier posts, maybe every gauge and engine is a little different.
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| TomO | -- 03-16-2015 @ 9:16 AM |
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Your gauge reading is normal with 180 degree thermostats Tom
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| jyakel | -- 05-27-2015 @ 4:27 AM |
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Tom, I'll take your good advice. Thank you for sharing your expertise. John
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