| len47merc | -- 04-25-2014 @ 10:15 AM |
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Hate to post this but after searching the forum for the last 365 days could not find a reference, so this'll likely open a big can of worms of opinions/debate. Are lead substitutes required for 59 A-B flatheads and prior? Or are the lead substitutes such as Gunk and Stewart-Warner's old Alemite CD-2 there like fishing lures - to catch more fishermen than fish? Steve
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| ford38v8 | -- 04-25-2014 @ 11:34 AM |
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Steve, no debate here. Lead or lead substitute is not required for 59A or earlier flatheads. 8BA, on the other hand, did not originally have hardened valve seats, and did benefit from the lead content in gasoline. Engine rebuilders do as a rule install hard seats, so any 8BA's that have been rebuilt in the past 60 years can be expected to have hard seats. Alan
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| supereal | -- 04-25-2014 @ 6:40 PM |
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When lead was removed from gas, it was common to predict that valve failure would follow. It didn't happen. Valve seat recession is common in old engines, mostly due to repeated grinding of the seats over the years, requiring replacement to restore compression. We replace all seats as a matter of course. We heard the same dire predictions when zinc was reduced in motor oil. A competent shop will use an initial fill of break in oil, and will coat the cam lobes with zinc bearing lube at assembly. After a few hundred miles, regular oil is sufficient. Additives are often advertised, but may only grease the dollars out of your wallet.
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| TomO | -- 04-26-2014 @ 7:40 AM |
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Those additive do manage to shrink the size of your wallet with no improvement in performance or reliability. I have found that use of Seafoam every few tankfuls does help the performance. It seems to eliminate the excess water that forms due to the alcohol in the gas. This seems to happen in the gas station tanks. They are supposed to be checking for it, but somehow I always manage to get a bad tankful every year. I carry a bottle in the trunk, just in case I run into a bad tank of gas and my car starts pinging. Tom
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| Tracker | -- 04-28-2014 @ 6:23 AM |
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SR...is that true also of adding ZDDP to motor oil in a 51 CM engine...if so, what is the pro/con benefits if any ? Tracker
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| len47merc | -- 04-28-2014 @ 8:49 AM |
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Thanks to all for your confirming replies. For everyone's info (if not already aware), high-performance engine building shops carry racing/classic partially synthetic engine oil called 'Brad Penn', manufactured by American Refining Group in Bradford, Pa., that contains high levels of zinc and phosphorous (ZDDP) at or above levels seen in the oils 'back then'. The oil is designed for Historic, Muscle, Classic and Race applications (covers 'em all 'eh?). Typically the shops use Brad Penn 30W as their break-in oil and then for racing engines move to 20W-50. For all of us staying original, Brad Penn's 30W is great oil to run everyday and you will not need to be concerned with ZDDP additives. Not for use in vehicles with catalytic converters (which should not apply to any of us anyway). Steve
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| TomO | -- 04-29-2014 @ 7:42 AM |
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Walmart also sells an oil with more ZDDP than the current oils, but I do not believe that it is necessary for our flathead engines with stock camshafts. Small amounts were added to some oils in the flathead years and when the high performance overhead valve engines came into use, more was added. The current oils contain enough anti-wear additive to keep our flatheads from self destructing. Tom
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| supereal | -- 04-29-2014 @ 3:28 PM |
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The primary reason zinc was reduced in oils was the damage detected in the exhaust systems of newer vehicles. It caused failure of catalytic converters, and affected the oxygen sensors vital to the electronic controls used today. Those damages are slow, but we have been seeing the "flat cam" problem now and then at our shop. Thankfully, the genuine Ford camshafts are durable, and often outlast the rest of the vehicle. Manufacturers are now specifying full synthetic oil in an effort to enhance engine life. Lightly used collector cars wouldn't benefit much, and the cost is considerably higher.
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| len47merc | -- 04-30-2014 @ 4:38 AM |
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Correcting a point made in my previous response, Brad Penn's 30W oil is a 'break-in' oil for new motors and/or components that contains elevated levels of zinc and phosphates beyond that found in their standard 10W-30, 15W-40 and 20W-50 weights. It is intended for the first oil change in a new motor and can be run for the standard period of time one would choose to do for a new motor, after which one of their multi-weight, lower ZDDP level oils would be selected for ongoing day-to-day operation. This said, Tom's & supereal's comments are all on the mark. Steve
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